It's just beyond comprehension and a complete shame what the union leadership is doing.

The last time concessions were made it was rewarded with flat out lies. At least then there was some legitimacy to the "loss".

This round?

There should be daily picketing in front of CX village, from ALL the emoployees who are going to pay for those costly mistakes.

This has to be a monty python sketch or a wind up.

But it might not be all THAT funny.

"Independent Third Party" eh ?

If I had a nickel for every bizillionaire living high on the hog who was broke on paper....

Yet there was a whole bunch of money somewhere; he just enjoyed it at a comfortable distance--it often dwelling in trusts or corporations that metered things to him (or let him live in their palaces and play with their toys) out of the goodness of their hearts while assuming his debts as well. All perfectly legal.

Not that hard to do if the money's somewheres else. And I'd challenge anyone (even a really really good third party) to figure out how money moves around in China. Or accurately figure out with objectivity all the convoluted deals we might be in. Even the placard of who owned what attached to the cockpit of the airplane I last flew did nothing but confuse me. So I think believing anything about dire straits one does at one's own peril. And mark my words buying into this will get you nothing but ever declining conditions. Charlie Brown is a cartoon character; real people wise up after the football is yanked a couple times.

Even the current president of the US is reported to have lost close to a billion bux (taking a hefty completely legal tax write off during the process) and doesn't seem much the worse for wear--or of having it ever impact his lifestyle or money making.

All I can say is WOW. If anyone is seriously considering any form of concession (especially in today's pilot climate) they deserve whatever happens to them. Win-Wins might be a different story, but a win-win assumes BOTH entities emerge better off (and it's quite OK if one of the entities 'wins' more than the other so long as they BOTH are better off after the deal); not that one has to give something up for both to win.

In the end the HKAOA membership has to vote on any concessions. If some feel that DS is working against the wishes of the HKAOA membership there is always to option to bring forward a motion of no confidence and vote on it.

It is all a grand setup!
DS/HPE/CX arrive at a turd, sprinkle some fake gold flakes on it and try to sell it to us with a GC recommendation to vote yes.
Membership votes NO and then CX has a mandate to unilaterally introduce said turd without fake gold sprinkles!
Membership votes YES and has to live with the turd!
Please remember, we are pilots, not plumbers!

So finally the company's new strategy becomes clear. Plant one of their managers as the head of the AOA.

F*cking devious.

Dear DS

Towards the end you said 'that the pilots are finally seen as equal stakeholders'

I do not desire to be seen as an equal stakeholder, which would never happen anyway.
I also don't need to be seen as an equal stakeholder in order to 'feel' part of the culture, history and the product, I can do that on my own terms.

Also I would suggest that if you are giving away (our) concessions due to their stuff ups, there is a clause somewhere that our concessions are null and void as soon as the hedging contract has expired.

This is all temporary y'all!
Let's make sure the concessions are as well.

I don't need to, nor will I agree to, make concessions to give our management a win. I have given NOTHING but concessions since I joined. I am not doing so again. Eventually you get pushed too far. And to the GC, grow a pair. We didn't elect you to give away 'our' farm. It's about what pay rise, what improved rostering system( and that is the win for the company) what improved basings and what improved housing we can expect, as those things have been PROMISED for years (and improved housing was agreed several years ago). Otherwise, walk away and those of us who do have a pair will prepare to take several weeks off 'unfit'. Time to prepare to demonstrate the ultimate value of our goodwill.

Farman I just loved the turd n sprinkles analogy!! 😃

If you need a lesson in the truth just look back over your own contracts of the last 25 years...name a single aspect that ever got better?

Plus ONE!! FFS

Meanwhile, over the road at Dragonair, nobody is asking the KA pilots for concessions. Why? Well they weren't stupid enough to demand HPE talks right at the moment management is looking to hit budgetary targets.

WTF did the GC think was going to happen?

Timing is everything.

Seriously, our last couple of committees have polished the turd and handed it back.
At least the AOA attempted to fight. Our last few committees are management or Checkies.
Wonder why?
DPA should sue "Tickle me Elmo" for copyright

TTW - Time to Worry??

I always worry when someone feels they have to assure me they have my best interests at heart. I should know that from their actions, not from some trite words.

I am so glad the HKAOA will only agree to concessions if some analyst in the US confirms the BS figures the Company chooses to show him. Do us fee paying members get a say or are we expected to place our rubber stamp on all this nonsense once sufficient Koolaid has been gulped.

WTF WTF WTF WTF and say again WTF.

I agree, worst communication ever in the history of the AOA, and at a time when we needed to hear something encouraging.

All the update had was more bleating about HPE. Lame, weak, and no leadership. P1ss poor update.

Wether you have DS or RF as chairman is irrelevant. How far is the membership willing to take this? Are most willing to strike?

You can't show up with a knife to a gun fight and you certainly can't show up to a poker game unless you're ready to lose all your chips. So before you criticize the AoA leadership, ask yourself if you're ready for the nuclear option.

Yes and No. Even I am able to admit that the ultimate in industrial action would be a difficult thing for me to consider. And I would like there to be a litmus test along the lines of Maximum safety before a full on strike. However..

You need a good leader to follow when you go over the top. RF is the only one who has shown any leadership of late. Just read his posts. Puts the current chairman and GC to shame.

betbump, as I posted in another thread, you do realize that the previous sh!t TA almost passed under his tenure right. IMO RF in the end became wishy washy. Not exactly the type you want when the going gets tough or the sh!t hits the fan.

And how will that previous sh!t TA look compared with what is coming and we will all sign up for? I expect that TA will look like the holy grail. You will fold, we always have done.

eer.... iPad, hate to rain on your parade matey, but had the TA been accepted there is no way you would be getting any of the so called "benefits". The Company would still be coming after your COS, except the Training Department would be full and we would all still be bound by Clause 7 and the Company's lawyers would be poised to sue anyone that breached.

You saw the TA as a gift horse, I saw it as a Trojan Horse. Anna's recent email says "eyes right, ewes wrong".

Where's STW with his "I told you so"?

Dragon, ask about the sh1t show that was happening behind the scenes at the time within the GC/NC.

Thankfully the majority saw through it all and voted against it.