KA Narrowbody order
 

I suppose CX will be ordering the PW GTFs on those since CX can't seem to be bothered to pay attention to the rest of the industry and the trouble operators have had with those.

So there's 31Billion available for this order , but so far , the DPA are being told there's nothing in the pot for salary increases next April. Another year of Zero percent . Thats two on the trot. A big hit . Go figure guys.

Oh , and I laughed out loud when I saw this news. Ffs, were they ever going to order anything else?

Good to hear KA are going to now increase frequencies on current china routes . and compete with HKE . Well done.

Well then its a matter of urgency that the DPA enters contract compliance ASAP isn't it , crying poor 24/7 is just smoke and mirrors.This company is not cash poor. Add in the recent acquisition of AHK , this current regime of deadpan psychopants and their continuous run of henny penny the sky is falling dribble has to of run its course surely right?

Reading the manifestos of those standing for the GC, I can see one candidate has gulped the Koolaid and refers to "the company's precarious financial position". I wonder how he reconciles that view with this substantial Airbus order, AHK purchase and the fact that a fairly savvy investor has just taken a 9% stake in Cathay.

He will get re-elected, but he will do so without my vote.

I have no doubt that should the DPA not be able to reach an agreement with the company a vote will be held. And if and when that vote occurs, the membership will decide their own fate.

Unbelievable
And these are the candidates running for our GC . We are all screwed.
Add in the current GC and their HPE dribble its pure comedy, beyond belief.

Well then,

It DOES look like we have boatloads of cash.

The supposedly 'broke' family in the valley claiming adversity just bought a couple of mansions on the hill. No telling how the new place will turn out, but it's pretty hard to lament how poor you are when you just got a few new shiny places and a couple of new cars.

No problem :)

CX and Dragon don't have boat loads of cash, rather the opposite. These airframes will be either leased or financed.

GTC58: if you believe that, then...a) i feel sorry for you, and b) you will get the career you deserve. CX has a mountain of cash, they just don't want you to have any of it. Once you figure out that distinction, it all becomes clear. (just a hint: I don't see any of the managers taking a pay or bonus cut. As a matter of fact, they awarded themselves raises...might be worth pondering)

GTC58,

People don't lend airlines money or lease them aircraft unless they are sure they will get their money back or the lease payments made. Unlike pilots, these people are not stupid and do their homework and read the fineprint.

The lenders will have seen that 84% of all Cathay Shares are held by 3 Companys, Swire Pacific (worth $HK113bn) Kingboard Chemicals (worth $HK34bn) and Air China (which is backed by the Chinese Government). These 3 shareholders have deep pockets and they are not going to let Cathay fail and they will not passively watch their investment disappear.

Actually Swire owns one of these aircraft leasing companies. I merely pointed out that CX will not buy these airframes cash as one of the posters implied.

No. What you said was "CX and Dragon don't have boatloads of cash". Incorrect. They have mountains of cash....but again, just not for you (or me).

Really, you must be a financial genius, because the balance sheet shows a highly leveraged airline. If you read some of the analyst research reports of CX they show a very different picture then you suggest. Cash flow will be a problem in the future as you can't bleed billions of dollars in cash without consequences. My guess is that CX will need a capital injection in the not so far future if things don't change.

Some of the US airlines went down this path in the past, but had chapter 11 proceedings to wipe their balance sheet clean. Not sure if that possibility exists in Hong Kong.

Well, it appears at least in this case it has enough boatloads of cash to either buy the jets or convince someone to lend them the capital. So there has to be boatloads of capital somewhere to be gotten at when desired. And it appears to me they want to live pretty high on the hog while stiffing the help (and not in a good way). Not going to get much sympathy here.

CX always plays the no chapter 11 card, but there are lots of ways to stiff someone you don't want to pay (and maybe even keep the money accessible somewheres else). Just because a defined chapter 11 doesn't exist in conventional terms doesn't mean there isn't an equivalent vehicle which essentially does the same thing--perhaps one which has a great deal more liberal terms than a conventional US bankruptcy whose terms are actually pretty restrictive. As such I kinda scoff at those claims.

To be honest, the way money moves around, I have no idea which balance sheets might be true and correct and which ones might not be (at least in terms of what I'd consider the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth). Many entities are broke on paper while also controlling (or tied in with) other entities which have bazillions. Should be interesting if someone, somewhere, someday finds a way to discover what is really going on.

Oh, so you must be just as equal a financial genius by claiming the opposite? I've been here longer than I care to admit, and the one PLAIN AS DAY fact that is clear in my head after all that time is that whatever CX tells you, you can safely assume the opposite. They have been salting away billions for the past 40 years. Due to an incomprehensible but short-term incompetent cock-up with fuel/currency/freight buildings, they are now suddenly claiming poor. The reality is sadly predictable: they are following the adage of 'never let a crisis go to waste', so of course they are happy to manipulate 'easily fearful and led' employees (not you of course :rolleyes:) into believing the sky is falling. Once they start firing managers, and cutting their pay and benefits substantially, then maybe i'll sit up and take notice. Until then, seen it all before, and it's getting tedious to keep having to witness it. They are liars extraordinaire. From that realisation flows all understanding.

I suppose it depends how you define cash: https://www.cathaypacific.com/conten...6_Final_en.pdf

In Current Assets, it shows just over HK$20b on the balance sheet (p.86 of 120, note 18). Just under HK$10b which would be classified as 'cash'. Likely, they'll have to finance at least in part, this aircraft purchase. There's no shame in that, many airlines do, and it is one of the better assets that earn a return once deployed.

I don't see an airline that is in dire straights from the financials, but I do see one that has made a significant blunder. Assuming the hedging losses are over, and provided additional blunder(s) are not made, one could state that they would be profitable come 2018/19.

Separately, given the holders of CX (the big names, not the small cheeses), I don't think anyone would hesitate to finance aircraft for them. Worst case, CX folds and they transfer the assets to Air China HK Limited (A HK registered company).

Yes me too. It was like the competition to give a new name to Dragonair House. Which was won by those who suggested Cathay Dragon House as if it was going to be named any differently.

There was no way Dragonair had the ability to transfer to Boeing. The airline is driven by a Airbus-cadet ethos. All training shortcomings, including structural and ab initio, are mitigated by Airbus technology. Perhaps the board also realised the hard, cold facts that KA has one of the industries most costly command training programs that delivers what to some management, is a satisfyingly high failure rate. A Boeing switch-over could have been a disaster.

BTW can we keep it to a KA thread? Or keep the AOA relevant to the discussion? I mean WTF are you guys doing as your regional op's being white-anted by KA?

Don't mid-seniority CX F/O's see their commands taxiing past in KA colours? The "it's a take-over, not a merger" rant must seem awfully distant?

Um. They did just fire 200 or so managers.