I think you know exactly whom i'm referring to when I say 'managers'. A few local paper pushers, of who we employed far too many to satisfy the 'iron rice bowl' concept is not what i'm on about. When I see a AT, RH or someone on the exec level get the boot (and Ivan doesn't count...as he was 'promoted') then i'll take notice. And as I said more pointedly, when THEY take a pay and benefit cut then maybe the discussion can start. I swear, the number of us on this forum that seem to want to support our management as they drive the airline and our careers into the ground is stupefying. :ugh:

When they say managers, try to find anyone in CX/KA without manager in their title.
Assistant manager, deputy manager and so on.
They sacked a bunch of secretaries 🤓 Anyone who makes bad decisions were kept as they could blame others 😃

And not in the main.

127 million dollars a jet, list price, come in spinner, demo or factory fresh, free tank of gas, what'd ya reckon, give us a number big guy.

Though they have to say it, shows a certain level of self awareness and from the horses mouth no less.

One director did leave the group entirely. DC.

If you want the answer lean back and read the plaque on the back of the cockpit door...This aircraft is owned by:
windemere 5 company via.. mitsui bank via...the amazing flying wheel company of bermuda via..CPA finance via ..CPA...via various interested partries!!
Imagine the bite out of the cherry each of those could take.

Imagine the offshore funds that are being scythed off for members of the Swire family and a few favoured executive. All the better to reduce profit sharing (i've forgotten, what was that....?) and pay and benefits for the mill workers....

Just a thought.........
 

Anybody realise that @ 4 Billion US....... very close to the total amount of losses
due the magnificent Fuel Hedge gamble.

32 freakin aircraft worth.......:rolleyes:

I know airlines that have less aircraft than that. Eventually observers of the industry will look back at what point this airline failed, and destroyed it's future. The day the bean counters decided that their least valuable asset were their employees. 1993. After that, it's been a sad and inexorable decline towards oblivion. Not far to go now :mad:

Still trying to keep this a KA thread so let's try this?

A321 Neo Crew Contract Compostion. C Scale Training Captain, MPL Cadet Second Officer doing First Officer Duties. Six Cabin Crew, junior, on most recent contracts, perhaps one or two mainland based crew on half again. Eng support is lean. The cost base transition is the fastest at KA.

The 321 numbers suggest KA's continued expansion in a number of areas. Creating new markets? Or more deliberate expansion over CX's regional network?

Are junior to mid-seniority CX F/O's suffering a legacy stupidity? I'd be resigning and joining KA.

Why would a CX FO jump to KA to fly the NEO which will be some time away yet due to the backlog (Airbus has a backlog of 5545 A320 series at the moment, yes not a typo over five thousand aircraft).

By the time the NEOs arrive those CX FO who have just upgraded will be going through command courses.

The NEO will be years away.

Nice wind up.

It wasn't a NEO specific command. I'm just saying look at that cost base, look at current circumstances and how tempting will it be to transfer as much of CX over to that cost base?

I'm not interested in winding anyone up but I am flabbergasted at the mindset and expectations of junior to middle seniority CX pilots given the present circumstances. Your command opportunity may never exist.

A year or two ago KA had a 0% pass rate on command. This year they are budgeting for a 75% pass rate which is interesting in itself.

For the CX pilots not to have seen this coming at the take over of KA was foolish. It's probably too late to do anything now, even the QF/J* option of transferring across wouldn't gain traction due the toxic industrial circumstances.

Does KA have a lower cost base than CX? How so? KA expats have a better contract than CX and their cadets make more money. So wtf are you talking about?

It's the efficiency of their operations through the mainland!

;)

Not unexpectably you've missed the logic. The cost base transfer is far quicker at KA.

Virtually all of our command promotion is on the C scale. Our F/O's are mostly on C scale and our Second Officers have to be cheaper because they operate as First Officers. Cabin crew. What do you think a mainlander makes?

What don't you get?

BlunderBus has been saying this for a long time

Has anyone considered that maybe it was just long overdue to replace the KA Narrowbody fleet with something more modern?

These things should be coming in now, not in 2020, because the airlines we compete with in that segment all already have brand spanking new planes and operate on totally different efficiencies. You know who I am talking about here.

Regardless it is good news for us line drivers that the quality of our equipment is going to markedly improve over the next several years.

172 seats vs 230 seats in the same aircraft...

Here's what I don't get... You actually think that crew costs are primary in determining which flying goes to KA. Forget branding, flying rights, the market at destination, etc.; the only thing that matters is crew costs. Wow, that's thick!

By your own admission, it's merely a faster transference to the cadet scheme, and KA cadets actually make more than CX. So for a temporary cost savings, all the flying is heading to KA. I seriously doubt it. Even CX managers aren't that dumb. Wait, maybe they are, but let's hope not.

CX/KA can barely crew the flying they have, much less be picky and choosy about who flies what. Maybe KA sees more growth than CX going forward. That seems possible, but I don't think we will witness a full withdrawal of CX from regional flying anytime soon in favor of KA. It just can't happen quickly, even if they wanted it to.

Also, let's take the worst case scenario, save a total collapse of the airline in which the lights are turned off. CX gets drastically smaller, all the 77Ws on lease go back, freighters are spun off, and most of the A330s get transferred to KA; leaving CX as a bare bones long haul carrier. The cost basis actually goes up! The cadets making the least money get made redundant and the expats are left over. How does that help?

Sorry Gnad, I just don't see your logic. Maybe you should stick to pilot math...

The only time I've seen the Screaming Skull affectionately quoted was here on pprune with the mood supporting his purported " It's a take-over, not a merger. KA pilots to the bottom of our seniority list ". This was a squandered opportunity for both pilot groups. I think the CX pilots are already paying for this and the KA guys are just a few years off due demographics and the dominant contract.

To make my point in previous posts clearer, 10 years after the take-over of KA is this what you expected? I don't know, as cxorcist point out, I'm not good at math, but would you have been happy with 100 commands at KA, some or many the result of expansion over your scope clause protected routes?

OK, let's move forward another 5-10 years if the Group survives ? Will CX pilots be happy with what they are seeing? As I said a year or two ago, KA's training system will change, not so creatively, but heads will roll ( as they should ) if the pass rate doesn't improve drastically. KA is now being geared up for continuous training and expansion and its potential cost base is a significant factor as is its ability to change.

I'm all right Jack, pull up the ladder, if you're a senior CX captain. But junior, mid-range CX pilots should be worried. And in the window I've asked you to consider, there are hundreds of pilots not even in the Group who will probably do their commands at KA over current CX routes - yeah right, straight to the bottom of CX seniority list!

All this makes me laugh. The CX guys so hate their lives . Their conpany. And now KA.

But Why be bitter n twisted?

To add to their fury, all KA crew will be piling into the CX sardine briefing office come Oct 17. A cosy place , im feeling the love.

Ka recently dropped its command requirements to startat 3000 hours. It was 5000 min.

KA now upgrades junior C scalers to training ranks.

Experienced Captains over 50 becomming exhaused due to the bumbly SOs they have to work with. Good at the books and wearing Raybans.

A321 Neo can do long routes.

My guess is that the HLK , J etc decrepid airframes will be replaced by A321 Neo . Not an expansion. A 330s will be reduced.

And Why? Look out of the KaCafe guys, theres a new boy in town n he's mean lean n hungry.

Oh and 15 A350's helps ;) LOL.