Trafalgar..

although this is maybe difficult for you to accept, not all and everything is about Cathay. This gentleman is asking a question about a corporate job.

What is wrong with you?

By the way, if you think the offer is below you, THAT is the market I am trying to explain to you dreamers... Welcome to REALITY.

Why don't you check what a HK Express guy earns? Or a skipper at Air Hong Kong?

And you? Rejects a payrise and housing extension on Cathay B scale.. Insane!

Well Sam, if a pilot on the CX package has a hard time making ends meet, probably even less chance on a corporate package. And it appears his prior comment was mainly directed to you.

Sam, most of your posts seem to want to rationalise and excuse what has happened in HK over the years as it's to do with CX. Let's agree to disagree. As for our colleague who was asking the question, your original post (deleted) implied that 'we' were going to try and discourage him from coming, and that somehow 'we' were then being less than honest in our appraisal. However, you then go and discourage him yourself. :confused:

I also don't understand why you keep referring to other airlines. I came to work for CX, because they demonstrated they valued my skills and experience. Now they treat experience and skill like it has the same value as a greeter at Walmart. I wouldn't come to work for CX now, for that reason. And I wouldn't come to work for any of the others you mentioned either. The fact that they are willing to hire low experience for low pay is a tragedy of the business today, and one that will come back to bite them very hard at some point in the future. I am not willing to edify or validate that. We once had a worth, based on our prior experience and trials and tribulations lived in gaining that experience and judgement. Now, that doesn't seem to matter, which is why we have a significant number of dodgy landings, questionable approaches and general worrying trends developing. No amount of 'rationalisation' will change that.

Mole,

I never said life on C scale is anything but not hard. Never.

That is not the point.

I say the market has changed and we should accept that, and not rejecting payrises.

You are shooting the messenger, that is what you are doing.

As do you, Trafalgar.

As for rejecting the 'payraise'. I suggest you have a one on one with Rod F and have him explain why that entire offer was a poisoned chalice. I would have liked the money, but not at the expense of throwing away the entire reason for even having an Association. There was a reason they had Clause 7 in the mix (and refused to take it out when challenged). The fact that you and many others couldn't understand the long term implications of what the management were trying to do is worrying. It's not always about the money...but that is all you keep seeming to mention.

Could you guys explain why a single guy can't get by on 150K ??????? Even a couple should be doing ok on that money. Please show me how you calculate your monthly cost, because my calculations show that 150 K should be plenty !!!
Again - I can see if you have kids it becomes harder, but for a single guy !!!! Please !!!!!

I respect RF's view but I did not share it then neither do I today.

What do you guess, same offer on the the table today, how much would sign it?

I say 90 %.

The operative word is SINGLE guy....and i would agree, no problem as a single guy on 150K a month. The corporate pilot mentioned he had a family if I recall.

I'm not talking about a single guy Volare. I've always said if you're single (and plan on staying that way) it's an 'ok' deal. Just nothing to actually consider as a career airline, where you need to think long term, things like wife, children, health, retirement, etc...

And STW, on that point you are probably correct. People get weary. Doesn't mean the principle still isn't valid.

150m hkd is not bad.
Consider paying 15% tax on it, 25000hkd for schooling, 35000hkd for a flat.

I'd say you'd be on the same $$$ as a CX senior FO on expat terms (with a smaller flat).
You'd have a good lifestyle, not a great one.

What are your options? (salary / base)

Trafalgar,

can I offer you a deal?

You keep your principles, I keep my contract.

I assumed as much considering your value scale.

'Keeping your contract' is exactly why the TA you cry so much about was voted down.

If you're so desperate about getting more money, move to the sand box. There won't be any pesky unions getting in the way of you getting screwed by management there.

Or maybe, next time you sign a contract, do your homework and make sure you can make a living without foolishly hoping for a raise to make it work...

Management contracts are different!!!!

As are contracts in in the sand box. About half of B scale with more work.

I am really impressed to work with you guys. Men of principle!! Heros!!

PS If you believe it or not, I respect your opinions. And I believe you really think you do the right thing. But so do Amish people and Coldplay.

Don't forget the housing in the sandpit. Makes a huge difference to the contract.

From a purely financial angle, it is THE difference.

CX B scale is better then sandpit. (no arguments I'm sure)
sandpit is better than C scale.

A conspiracy theorist would believe that the managers of different airlines are colluding in a race to the bottom

Thanks for the replies fellas..

Zapp - My options are not too bad. I could stay where I am (small private operator in SE England but not much flying and salary not exactly great), I also have a potential opportunity at Vista Jet with an EU base. The lure of HKG was a chance to live somewhere a bit more exotic than England (we aren't English so it's not home for us either), be in Asia and do some travelling to neighboring countries, and hopefully save a bit of cash out of what initially appeared to be a half-decent salary.

We're experienced enough expats, have done the sandpit thing for nearly 6yrs - no interest in going back, couple of years around the caribbean, also did some time in SIN but I wasn't with family so life in the world's most expensive city was not so expensive compared to what HKG would be.

I get the impression that 150k/month is not negotiable and factoring in the taxes just reduces it even more. Someone else mentioned how prices are constantly going up - that's also another concern so what is just 'only OK' today could be worth a bit less tomorrow.

Thanks again for the feedback - I appreciate it.