Legend !
 

DS
Your my hero!
You are willing to resign from training !
About time ! Will other trainers follow ? Or will they not !
Me thinks NO
Perhaps DS , you can settle for next best , and write another letter! And you! DS can be the instigator !!
Goat

i wondered how DS was going to square that circle.

Training Captain DS wrote to Training Captain DN, President of HKALPA, instructing him to write to IFALPA asking member unions to not assist in training Cathay pilots. This was obviously very hypocritical given that both DS and DN were themselves assisting in training Cathay pilots (coz it's different issinit?).

DS apparently has done the right thing - legend- I wonder if DN will follow suit? After all, he presides over HKALPA which wrote to IFALPA.

That only leaves the DPA and Air Hong Kong to justify their position. They were parties to approaching IFALPA, yet their pilots assist in training Cathay pilots....also hypocritical.....

That only leaves the DPA and Air Hong Kong to justify their position. They were parties to approaching IFALPA, yet their pilots assist in training Cathay pilots....also hypocritical.....[/QUOTE]

err..
apart from the fact that they (the DPA) approached the AOA who didn't have a problem with it

I assumed DS is el Presidilgo.

If he hasn't resigned from training, he's one heck of hypocrite and makes us all look like plonkers when IFALPA finds out.

Yes well done. Let's do everything we possibly can to delay upgrades and career progression for many years to come. Brilliant, time to win.

Staggers,

Yep... the HKAOA and DPA worked together last year. However, things have now changed. The DPA, as part of HKALPA, has written to IFALPA asking them to ask their member unions to deny training facilities, yet the DPA is providing training facilities. The DPA and HKAOA are a bunch of hypocrites.

No are not talking about el presidential, he wont resign as far as he is concerned its best to have a sandal in each camp
We are talking about cos 99 trainer who has threatened to resign over cx cuts to healthcare providers.

What's there to respect..... He hasn't done anything of substance..... He probably wont do anything of substance in the future either.


ITs all over

How would you expect a KA trainer to refuse a rostered duty and keep their job? CX pilots are entitled to refuse training outside of Cathay but don't... we don't want to be training other airline crews.

TSIO540,

I think we are actually in agreement.

The short answer is that I do not expect a KA Trainer to engage in the "denial of Training Facilities" (to adopt the language of the IFALPA letter).

It would be incredibly two faced/weak/gutless for the HKAOA to expect the DPA (or any other union) to withhold Training when the HKAOA is not doing that themselves (rightly or wrongly?). However, that is exactly what HKALPA (which includes the HKAOA and DPA) are doing by requesting "denial of Training Facilities" from IFALPA member unions.

IMHO this reflects very poorly on us all. However, the Presidents of both the HKAOA or IFALPA really stand out as they signed the letters of request, yet they personally provide training facilities to Cathay. I bet they didn't mention that in the letters of request!!

Would it not be great if we could get others to fight our fights for us?

TB is effective all right, effective at screwing all the SOs and FOs. We're not even going to get an offer as good as the last one we turned down so this has all been a big waste of time. It's not a win if the AOA successfully blocks guys/girls getting an upgrade.

Yeah curtain just an upgrade that's all, nothing important! I hope you're not on the CG because you are obviously waaaay out of touch.

Curtain
Please refain from bothering with Xwind hes a pillock, everyone knows that.

Xwnd - it's always about YOU. How you're hard done by simply by begging to scoff at the crumbs of a substandard package.... How the real pilots that you can never aspire to come close to matching in professionalism, maturity let alone airmanship fight for the long term betterment of the CX pilot body. Yes, the same one you begged to undermine via accepting a contract that placed undeniable pressure upon their long term security. But hey, it's all about YOU!

And you still wonder why ignorant brats like you are despised at CX? You represent all that is dispicable in our industry: self interest & greed.

Well, I'm in the AOA and pay them some of the "crumbs" I earn every month unlike some others who have been here for nearly 20 years then make a near death bed conversion.

China I bet you're a skipper right?

Xwindldg

The vocal ChinaBeached is not even at Cathay he just preaches how wonderful he is to have "turned down" an offer to work here whilst attacking thos ethat have joined.

Xwnd - you'e only a member of the AOA to be seen as "one of the boys", nothing more. You've demonstrated your disapproval on their stance on CC and the TB, etc... The main issues of this and other threads. The AOA opposed your existence at CX due to C-Scale: the very lowering of credentials that you are. So it's ironic that you pay money to a body that a) opposed you being at CX and b) you oppose their direction and stance is laughable. I'm sure that percentage of your salary that is paid to the AOA won't make a different if a member of the GC puts 1 or 2 teaspoons of sugar of their soy latte tomorrow - but good of you for thinking you're one of the fellas!

Ice - how "wonderful" I am? That's a very colourful word! Am I "gleeful" and "exuberant" as well? Or did you we disturb you from a Judy Garland movie marathon? No, I never said my decision was "wonderful". I used experience, credentials and integrity to make my decision. I know my decision was the right one. Just as I know that submitting my bank details in response to email promising me a share in a lucrative gold mine in Africa is plain DUMB. Whilst C-Scale and such emails are the same, guys like Xwnd would still be running around Africa with a shovel in his hand getting angry about how he's been hard done by....

China,

So you're not in the AOA and you don't even work for CX, why are you even bothering to post anything here? You've got no dog in this fight and you have no idea what's going on. Really weird that you post such angry stuff and you don't even work here.

Ironic :ugh:... you joined on C scale thinking you would get better terms and conditions later on in your career. Clearly you didn't do any research on the history between CX management and the AOA. Be grateful that you have a job and a steady income. But of course that is never enough for you young joiners, always fed with a silver spoon growing up and being impatient (I want, I want, I want now!)

Also, now you have the audacity to say that the TB is "screwing all the SOs and FOs" := when you accepted the C scale offer in the first place. Get real!!

For the benefit of Mcnugget and xwind and all other 3 yr old new joiners
When PW ( a past president ) was voted in he immediately resigned from being a trainer
Thats integrity and not having a sandal in each camp.

Umm... I'm not a 3 year old new joiner. But thanks.

I appreciate (and agree with) your point. However, CB is nothing but a psychotic fraud who won't go away.

Who do you work for again, CB? Oh yes, you won't say.

Ps. Standing by for a long winded rant...

No PW did mot immediately resign from c and t..took about 18 months.. hardly a short marching pace...

I didn't think I'd get better at all

However, as an FO3, please do tell me where I'd make 115,000 a month, plus p-fund and allowances elsewhere. I reckon I've got m ear to the ground, but obviously you know best.

Also - do advise me of which jobs out there I'm not qualified for. 4500hrs 777, 3000 right seat. 1700+ in GA. Batchelors and Masters degrees. I would love to hear all about it (again).

While you're at it, a few yarns from your days in the military wouldn't go amiss.

Oh, that's right, they would.

Strangely enough, I joined expecting better over time. The global market led me to such a conclusion. Funnily enough, that has happened.

I wonder what the future holds.

Any guesses?

Anotherday. You say that freighter crew have the 'right' to quit CC. Huh? Although I appreciate they are particularly affected, it doesn't give them, or any other member, the 'right' to unilaterally quit CC. If they want to resign from the AOA first then certainly. There is no guarantee that each group would share the burden 'evenly'. The only answer to this dysfunctional industrial mess of an airline is to stick together and insist on proper terms and conditions.

Insist on? To me, the ability to insist on something depends on being in a position of strength (in this case dependent upon unity) and having significant leverage over the person(s) of whom you are making your demands.

Or did you mean negotiate?

STP

Yes, that. :)

Which one is it? As I previously mentioned to Xwindldg, prior research would have broadened your knowledge.

That is all very good however it is not for me to worry about, rather it is for you to worry about. If you are not happy, then leave. That is what's best.

You must have joined after 2011 as someone who is now on FO3, had a short stint as an S/O (2yrs) compared to some others that were +4yrs. If you are not contempt with gaining experience from the right seat, earning a stable income, travelling the globe and simply being in a rush to get your Command rather than riding out the cycles that the aviation industry brings, then may I suggest that you go to other airlines that offer a quicker command. Maybe the ME as it's closer to home. :ok:

That's all good and well but I've never been in the military. Though, listening to their stories would be a lot more interesting rather than listening to you complain how you have been hard done by :ugh:

FO3 and 4500 hours? How do you figure?

6 and a bit years in. 3 years since jfo upgrade. May be a shade less. Haven't done my logbook tallies in a while, but the point I was making still stands.

Most airlines don't recognize SO time as you're technically not rated on type.

3x900=2700 You can then exclude bunk time which is roughly 50%. 2700/2=1350. Let's round it up to 1500.

Actually, most airlines recognise SO time once you're P1 rated.

And no, my bunk time isn't anywhere near 50%.

Glad you know my logbook better than me.

Back to my point - what does my (lack of) experience preclude me from?

What direct entry FO airline gigs require more than 5000+ total and 3 years right seat?

I don't have to know your log book, unless you're fudging hours. In case you haven't figured it out Einstein it ain't difficult to figure out roughly your flying hour. Wasn't difficult to call BS on your inflated numbers.

And you have a Master's degree??? In what knitting??

This is depressing
 

Remember when guys joining Cathay all had minimum 4000-5000 hours? Now all we have are 0-to-hero McNuggets

Yeh, because it isn't rocket science anymore.

Well, yes, until it is. And sadly there are numerous events around the world every year where experience counts far beyond the 'automatics'. :mad:

Correct. And many airlines, CX included, have a very long history of cadet pilots, while maintaining industry-leading safety records.

Only issue is many of those "cadets" dont make it. The real question is what is the cost to benefit ratio.

any evidence to back that up besides your personal opinion

I think you'll find that in the context of this conversation, that's not the real question at all.