The talks will not lead to any resolution. They, the company, have already decided what they want to do after the 31st of May. The talks are just street theatre so they can be seen to try and negotiate. After the 31st of May they will claim the gulf with the AOA is too great and roll out whatever devious scheme they have been concocting.

Yep........smoke and mirrors....

I hate to say it but I believe From a Distance is spot on. It's all a trick and has been for some time. The GFBA was the best ruse ever perpetuated on us all. We'll fall for it again and either, under pressure, sign the deal or it gets voted down or an impasse happens and like the past, everything gets slammed down our throats. We really must prepare ourselves.

The question is what are we going to do about it? It's over for the AOA if anymore nonsense happens as that is truly when terms and conditions take over. Keep in mind they still have to crew the 747s at Air Hong Kong on even worse conditions. I hope everyone is paying attention to the fact that just about everyone in the world is hiring pilot's. The freighter operation could be outsourced to others but flown by whom? They still have to check and train those people and retain them.

This comes down to a scorched earth policy they have. I say it's time to let it burn. I mean how much more of this does one need to take. Management has lost their minds and only know how to beat their employees because we let them.

I'll say it again and hope someone is listening, cease the negotiations as it's not worth the paper it will be written on. They will violate any deal as they have always done in the past. Get the battle fatigues on, pick up your rifle and bullets and stand ready to fight because the juggernaut is coming.

Please for the love of God do not go to that party and socialize with these abhorrent people.

Ask yourselves this, would you be ready, willing and able to strike???

Show me the outfit that can take the type of capacity CX cargo has... No, if they go down that road, it's very slow and gradual (AHK, Atlas, etc). It's also war with the CX pilots forever, not to mention those who leave from lost bases and disgust. We have more leverage than some think. Stay the course. Tow the line. We WILL get there!

What makes you think they wouldn't do something that is very bad for us? They do it during relatively "good" times so how much would they love to do it if we gave them a reason. You watch, direct entry FO/CAPT/TC and outsourcing freighter ops then we will be wondering how we all got so brainwashed into thinking this was a good idea. Of course it won't bother anyone who isnt an SO or FO because it won't affect them at all. I'm alright Jack. :ok:

now is the time to quit training and really tighten the screws

On top of the resignations and retirements, she is really putting things to the test. It's a shame that her personal goals to get a huge bonus will slowly tear our airline apart. Furthermore, she will not ever reach that huge bonus goal, or any in between. It's a sad day for all of us, and to make matters worse, the CEO has even less of a clue about how to run an airline (or even a car).

If our airline was not in Asia, we would not be in business anymore.

Time to reiterate that any training outside CX is scab work. Scabs are the scum of the earth.

Also, time to prepare ALPA for another potential hiring ban at CX...... Not that anyone that CX hires has ever heard of ALPA.... or V1.

In other words Nothing has happened from the company end and the union has not yet given in. The company will not budge and the union better give in or else. Nothing has changed.... Nothing will. Total fluff and crappy propaganda! Well done!

May 31 will be a watershed.. be prepared.. we all must have an escape plan since what is in the pipe is not very nice...

Uuuhhhhh, I'm so afraid.

Pucka, so you personally have info as to what is planned? Please, give it a rest. AT can threaten all she wants. Most of us are simply doing our jobs. Even lifting the training ban won't help. They would then have to select and train up the new trainers....takes months. If she wanted to prove her total inadequacy for the job, she just did so. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and 'promote' her to her next level of incompetence. As to the 'threat'...couldn't care less. This place is already aviation misery defined.

Oh, and Pucka, most of us already DO have an escape route planned, AND being implemented as we speak.

Luck isn't needed. Just a practical, logical and positive plan. The key ingredient of which is getting rid of the most toxic aspect of the current situation: CX.

The "dead"line is for Anna.
She has made a mess of things and now can't deliver as promised.
She will go down with the ship for this - the question is how many she will take down with her since she really has nothing to lose now.

These itinerant 'managers' come and go. They ALL concoct their schemes, issue their threats, but ultimately we loyally work year after year, and they are gone. She'll be gone just like the rest of them. Ironically, now, many of us will be voluntarily gone as well, taking our loyalty and skills to other employers who can show us a modicum of respect. So either way, AT won't be a factor in my life for much longer.

Xwind - can you be anymore ignorant and hypocritical?

What? Like C-Scale that you begged for and ate up like a cheap rancid dancing monkey? That same C-Scale that lowered the worth of a CX "pilot" (loose term) to work for so very much less than others with real experience refused to be insulted with?

Like applying for, begging for, vehemently defending and accepting a job that put immense downward pressure on your colleagues' and their remuneration / COS? And then having the audacity to bit^h and moan about how tough it is to be in your oversized shiny red shoes and squeaky red nose?

Just as you did the pilots with the real experience & credentials who stood firm and said no to being a corporate puppy dog? As did the AOA by publicly denouncing it? And what of the larger pilot body who you screwed over by accepting C-Scale for your own selfish me-first needs? But you & your hop-along SJS kiddies tea party came bounding in with a saucer of milk asking for their cheap Chinese powdered variety, laced with poison? But you're OK "Jack", or is what everyone warned you about actually coming true but you prefer to blame others still? Are the 7/11 noodles becoming too expensive? The 380 sq ft flat cramped? It's been 2 years and you've amassed 175 hrs of ICAO recognised hours, 450 worthless P2X hours, 12 kgs of stale sandwiches around your waist and STILL they haven't made you an Interstellar Super Cool Dude Captain? Of course you should feel hard done by due this CC..... Have you Skyped your Mummy about this?? Is she phoning the AOA to have "stern words"? Have you informed EK that you're coming soon & will bring all that experience with you? Has EK sent over the Sheikh's private 777 to bring you for a fast track Director of Flight Ops position? No? Does the AOA not realise they're holding you back??!

And in your previous thread you say the (REAL CX) pilots are being selfish for fighting for a better future that unfortunately includes you despite what you've done to the collective pilot body through your actions in accepting & defending C-Scale as a good thing?

To the rest of the CX pilots, good luck fellas. I hope you can unite and stay the course to get what you earned and deserve for yourselves and your families.

China. Well put. It always amazes me that people with less than two minutes experience in the industry think that their opinion has much value. Most of us are fighting on principle now. Many of us are seeing delayed upgrades, loss of income etc, etc. And guess what?, we will continue to suffer for what is the bigger principle at stake: not being dictated to and abused by short term, self centered managers who's only loyalty is to themselves. The sacrifices we are ALL making are for the collective long term good. The training ban is crippling them, hence the panicked and frankly embarrassing letter from the DFO. They have created this mess of an airline (over a 20+ year period), and now they think we should solve it for them. Too late for that. They need to get out the cheque book, realise that professional crew cost money, and deserve respect and a future that holds promise. The fact that they have stripped that away from us is the reason they are now gasping for breath. Let them suffocate (oh, and choke on their threats).

Xwind..hmm I recall his silly name.

Isn't this the author of the brilliantly titled "Training Ban HOME(sic) goal" post. Didn't he throw his toys out of the pram as his upgrade has been delayed.

That title alone made me realise this local clown shouldn't be given the time of day.

C scalers aren't to blame, if the company didn't introduce C scale they would have introduced a new contract for everyone. Crew costs had to come down for the company to be competitive, it's a no brainer. You could argue B scale has only remained relatively unchanged because CX chose the gradual introduction of C scale to reduce crew costs. C scale (over B or even A) saved them around $620million last year, or around 10% of what we made aside from fuel pricing. And the savings to the company increase every year.

The chest pounding on here is remenescent of what was heard in 2000-2001, sadly no lessons have been learnt. I'll remind you of some of the more memorable quotes from AOA focus nights 15 yrs ago:

"We'll keep pressure on and get all we want"
"They've never sacked a bunch of guys to send a message"
"Don't worry about a courier package sent to your home from the company, it's nothing"
"If you don't open it you'll keep your job"
"Everyone they've ever sacked has always got their jobs back"
"The public's on our side, they want to see us happy, fare prices don't matter"

I could sadly go on all day. Back in 2000 some of the old timers stood up and said the company doesn't like being bullied, this will get ugly. Well, guess what?

Anotherday,

Couple differences. 1) CX is already scraping the bottom of the barrel both with their terms and conditions as well as the quality of their recruits. There is nothing left to drop, no lower place to go. 2) The pilot shortage is real, not just in terms of numbers but also qualifications. CX cannot afford to be pissing off a bunch of current and qualified crews. Retention rates are already a problem, as are retirements which will see the top 15% of the seniority list leave in the next few years. That was not the case in the 1990's, 2001, or even 2009.

I believe AT does NOT want her bluff called. Their "big fix" will be a mess...