The open threat from Ms. Thompson the Director of Flight Operations
 

The email offends me personally and professionally on so many levels and must be addressed. I would like the AOA to suspend any meetings until this is retracted and an apology made by Ms. Thompson.

I dare you to do something rash Ms. Thompson. Please test our resolve. You have been the biggest problem since you came here. You sound panicked honestly. Panicked and pathetic. You are running the airline into dangerous waters.

I was actually thinking of going to VM's party May 13th but for sure will not be attending now. I think no one should go and we should protest in front of CX city instead. Come on Rod!

I will be voting NO as the threat made up my mind today. We have already given away too much and opening talks with threats is completely unacceptable.

Oooohhh, scary (hahaha). Completely agree. The funny thing is, she talks about the other associations as thought 'their' pilots are all agreeable with her. They have just as much contempt for her as the rest of us. Completely agree visionary, there is nothing left to do but strongly adhere to our current course. In case she is forgetting, 'we' are doing nothing more or less than 'doing our jobs' as per our contract. For those that can, if there is any lingering doubt as to staying in CX or seeking a more rewarding career elsewhere...well, you can stop doubting. Run from this place as fast and as far as you can. The most toxic working environment in the industry. What a legacy this woman is building.

Oh, and Ms. Thompson. You can sanction yourself for violating the company intimidation policy. Just for starters.

What threat? No substance here. Sufficiently vague as usual....

She had me until the second sentence from the end.

Training ban: onward and upward!

Negotiating with this lot is a never ending exercise in futility. AT was correct on all points right up to the end, where she threw down her ultimatum and set a deadline. Effectively, she just said, "You better agree to what we want or else..." Earth to CX management, that is not negotiating in GOOD FAITH, and it condemns the process to certain failure. This isn't high school, and I'm not giving you my lunch money.

So, I'll ask the questions... Or else what? What will you do? You think you have options? Show your hand. I dare you. Want to wrap up the freighter operation and let other operators skim what little profit there is in CX cargo? Go ahead! See how your investors like that, especially after building that massive cargo terminal. Watch how many pilots leave when their 747 bases are closed. How does that solve your crewing problem? Who will train all these Boeing to Airbus conversions? KA? Good luck. Does EADS have a few dozen extra trainers sitting around doing nothing? I think not. And who will train the new joiners while all these fictional Boeing to Airbus conversions occur? Yeah, that's what I thought... nobody!

In short, I call your bluff. You better put a darn good rostering proposal down on the table, or your cards will be bared for all to see. I seriously doubt your term as DFO lasts much longer if that happens. This isn't high school, and you aren't playing truth or dare. This is real life. Time to join the rest of the civilized world and negotiate in GOOD FAITH. You have just as much to lose as we do, probably more. Or do you like Mainland Coke bottling?

So you are going to fire me if I work in accordance to my job contract? If you fire him or her or me or us, you are not just firing one. You will be firing more than just 49. Go on, try and break your uncle record. I dare you too :)

Well said Dan. She seems to think that the AOA is the 'problem'. She needs to look in a mirror. The AOA and it's stance is only a reflection of the resolve, anger and determination of almost 3000 pilots. I include ALL the aircrew in that claim, as she is trying to isolate the HK AOA. The entire pilot body, no matter what their affiliation is united in contempt and anger against the misrule in this airline. Go ahead Anna, issue your 'threats'. Meanwhile, the airline is foundering and pilots are leaving, in ever more increasing numbers. Perhaps you can actually make a positive decision for a change, one that improves the lives, career prospects and desire to work for CX. Somehow I think that is the last thing on your mind. You'll be long and gone, like all the other failed DFO's, and this airline will continue to drift. I won't be dictated to by someone who is clueless about aviation (ettiquetes!), who will be here for the proverbial '5 minutes' and who has nothing but selfish aims

Careful boys. Don't ever think you have Swire over a barrel. Talk is cheap. They will have contingencies planned if the talks fail.

Move freighters to Air Hong Kong, with the 747 pilots going to the straight onto the A350? A330's to Dragonair? No training ban there. Either way, upgrades come to a halt at Cathay magically have all the pilots they need. Much easier to convert than upgrade. They will have far more plans than these and none of them are going to be good for those wanting to upgrade.

Maybe we should wait and see what the AOA can achieve and not have predetermined opinions. TV, how can you say that you are voting no when the meeting hasn't happened yet?

Ok, no doubt I'll be shot at dawn for stating this view but I recall we went into contract compliance for a pay deal and better rostering. We've achieved one and there is a meeting next month to discuss the other. Lets see what happens eh?

I for one don't look upon the email as a threat, more a warning stating that they have a plan if the talks fail and it aint going to be good for Cathay pilots.

Big Picture, you don't have it. I'm guessing you are the guy who takes the first counter offer at the car dealership. Glad you aren't running the AOAs.

They always have a 'plan'. The thing to remember is that they are usually flawed, short term, self damaging and ultimately the joke of the industry. My 'plan' is to keep doing my job to the LETTER OF MY CONTRACT. Frankly, who on earth cares about an 'upgrade', when all that will do is tie you even closer to a failed airline, and drag you deeper into an unhappy and unsatisfying career. The ONLY result that is acceptable is that this type of management is eradicated once and for all from this airline. We deserve better, but we will only realise that outcome if we finally show collective resolve. It is obvious that the training ban is finally panicking them. Threats were always to be expected. Oh the irony: she mentions the new talks, but then undermines them before they even get started by backing them up with a threat. She has failed before she even got started. She doesn't realise that we have all reached the point where threats no longer work. She has just stiffened my resolve to resist this pathetic, disrespectful and offensive style of management once and for all. Thanks Anna, you've made my decision easy.

The line in the sand has just been drawn.

Is that like Obama's "red line" for Syria? Or is this one a different color? Who has ever seen a line in the sand that they didn't want to jump over and kick dirt on from the other side?

Trafalgar, I think you might be in a minority with that point of view. Honestly if you are that unhappy move on, life's too short.

It's going to be a massive hit to morale if direct entry FO/Capt/training capt happens. What if we've given them a reason to offer direct entry at even lower COS? Will it all be worth it? This is something that WILL affect anyone wanting to upgrade.

Big Picture, crop yourself.

What makes you think they won't do something that's bad for us? They've done it when times are relatively "good", how much more will they love to stick the knife in when they actually have a reason to do it.

Big picture. I guess principle is something that will eventually occur to you.

She seems a bit stressed.

She really should take a vacation. That can't be good for her health over the long term, she'll pop a vein.

How about 2 weeks without pay, with the guarantee of an extended housing deal when she comes back?
Come on Anna, you can even make it in time for the cherry blossom!

How do you force people to take a training job ..? Not worth the money,grief,agro,rosters and cancelled leave anyway..
Training 'out house' will produce exactly what you find in the outhouse.

The talks will not lead to any resolution. They, the company, have already decided what they want to do after the 31st of May. The talks are just street theatre so they can be seen to try and negotiate. After the 31st of May they will claim the gulf with the AOA is too great and roll out whatever devious scheme they have been concocting.

Yep........smoke and mirrors....

I hate to say it but I believe From a Distance is spot on. It's all a trick and has been for some time. The GFBA was the best ruse ever perpetuated on us all. We'll fall for it again and either, under pressure, sign the deal or it gets voted down or an impasse happens and like the past, everything gets slammed down our throats. We really must prepare ourselves.

The question is what are we going to do about it? It's over for the AOA if anymore nonsense happens as that is truly when terms and conditions take over. Keep in mind they still have to crew the 747s at Air Hong Kong on even worse conditions. I hope everyone is paying attention to the fact that just about everyone in the world is hiring pilot's. The freighter operation could be outsourced to others but flown by whom? They still have to check and train those people and retain them.

This comes down to a scorched earth policy they have. I say it's time to let it burn. I mean how much more of this does one need to take. Management has lost their minds and only know how to beat their employees because we let them.

I'll say it again and hope someone is listening, cease the negotiations as it's not worth the paper it will be written on. They will violate any deal as they have always done in the past. Get the battle fatigues on, pick up your rifle and bullets and stand ready to fight because the juggernaut is coming.

Please for the love of God do not go to that party and socialize with these abhorrent people.

Ask yourselves this, would you be ready, willing and able to strike???

Show me the outfit that can take the type of capacity CX cargo has... No, if they go down that road, it's very slow and gradual (AHK, Atlas, etc). It's also war with the CX pilots forever, not to mention those who leave from lost bases and disgust. We have more leverage than some think. Stay the course. Tow the line. We WILL get there!

What makes you think they wouldn't do something that is very bad for us? They do it during relatively "good" times so how much would they love to do it if we gave them a reason. You watch, direct entry FO/CAPT/TC and outsourcing freighter ops then we will be wondering how we all got so brainwashed into thinking this was a good idea. Of course it won't bother anyone who isnt an SO or FO because it won't affect them at all. I'm alright Jack. :ok:

now is the time to quit training and really tighten the screws

On top of the resignations and retirements, she is really putting things to the test. It's a shame that her personal goals to get a huge bonus will slowly tear our airline apart. Furthermore, she will not ever reach that huge bonus goal, or any in between. It's a sad day for all of us, and to make matters worse, the CEO has even less of a clue about how to run an airline (or even a car).

If our airline was not in Asia, we would not be in business anymore.

Time to reiterate that any training outside CX is scab work. Scabs are the scum of the earth.

Also, time to prepare ALPA for another potential hiring ban at CX...... Not that anyone that CX hires has ever heard of ALPA.... or V1.

In other words Nothing has happened from the company end and the union has not yet given in. The company will not budge and the union better give in or else. Nothing has changed.... Nothing will. Total fluff and crappy propaganda! Well done!

May 31 will be a watershed.. be prepared.. we all must have an escape plan since what is in the pipe is not very nice...

Uuuhhhhh, I'm so afraid.

Pucka, so you personally have info as to what is planned? Please, give it a rest. AT can threaten all she wants. Most of us are simply doing our jobs. Even lifting the training ban won't help. They would then have to select and train up the new trainers....takes months. If she wanted to prove her total inadequacy for the job, she just did so. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and 'promote' her to her next level of incompetence. As to the 'threat'...couldn't care less. This place is already aviation misery defined.

Oh, and Pucka, most of us already DO have an escape route planned, AND being implemented as we speak.

Luck isn't needed. Just a practical, logical and positive plan. The key ingredient of which is getting rid of the most toxic aspect of the current situation: CX.

The "dead"line is for Anna.
She has made a mess of things and now can't deliver as promised.
She will go down with the ship for this - the question is how many she will take down with her since she really has nothing to lose now.

These itinerant 'managers' come and go. They ALL concoct their schemes, issue their threats, but ultimately we loyally work year after year, and they are gone. She'll be gone just like the rest of them. Ironically, now, many of us will be voluntarily gone as well, taking our loyalty and skills to other employers who can show us a modicum of respect. So either way, AT won't be a factor in my life for much longer.

Xwind - can you be anymore ignorant and hypocritical?

What? Like C-Scale that you begged for and ate up like a cheap rancid dancing monkey? That same C-Scale that lowered the worth of a CX "pilot" (loose term) to work for so very much less than others with real experience refused to be insulted with?

Like applying for, begging for, vehemently defending and accepting a job that put immense downward pressure on your colleagues' and their remuneration / COS? And then having the audacity to bit^h and moan about how tough it is to be in your oversized shiny red shoes and squeaky red nose?

Just as you did the pilots with the real experience & credentials who stood firm and said no to being a corporate puppy dog? As did the AOA by publicly denouncing it? And what of the larger pilot body who you screwed over by accepting C-Scale for your own selfish me-first needs? But you & your hop-along SJS kiddies tea party came bounding in with a saucer of milk asking for their cheap Chinese powdered variety, laced with poison? But you're OK "Jack", or is what everyone warned you about actually coming true but you prefer to blame others still? Are the 7/11 noodles becoming too expensive? The 380 sq ft flat cramped? It's been 2 years and you've amassed 175 hrs of ICAO recognised hours, 450 worthless P2X hours, 12 kgs of stale sandwiches around your waist and STILL they haven't made you an Interstellar Super Cool Dude Captain? Of course you should feel hard done by due this CC..... Have you Skyped your Mummy about this?? Is she phoning the AOA to have "stern words"? Have you informed EK that you're coming soon & will bring all that experience with you? Has EK sent over the Sheikh's private 777 to bring you for a fast track Director of Flight Ops position? No? Does the AOA not realise they're holding you back??!

And in your previous thread you say the (REAL CX) pilots are being selfish for fighting for a better future that unfortunately includes you despite what you've done to the collective pilot body through your actions in accepting & defending C-Scale as a good thing?

To the rest of the CX pilots, good luck fellas. I hope you can unite and stay the course to get what you earned and deserve for yourselves and your families.

China. Well put. It always amazes me that people with less than two minutes experience in the industry think that their opinion has much value. Most of us are fighting on principle now. Many of us are seeing delayed upgrades, loss of income etc, etc. And guess what?, we will continue to suffer for what is the bigger principle at stake: not being dictated to and abused by short term, self centered managers who's only loyalty is to themselves. The sacrifices we are ALL making are for the collective long term good. The training ban is crippling them, hence the panicked and frankly embarrassing letter from the DFO. They have created this mess of an airline (over a 20+ year period), and now they think we should solve it for them. Too late for that. They need to get out the cheque book, realise that professional crew cost money, and deserve respect and a future that holds promise. The fact that they have stripped that away from us is the reason they are now gasping for breath. Let them suffocate (oh, and choke on their threats).

Xwind..hmm I recall his silly name.

Isn't this the author of the brilliantly titled "Training Ban HOME(sic) goal" post. Didn't he throw his toys out of the pram as his upgrade has been delayed.

That title alone made me realise this local clown shouldn't be given the time of day.

C scalers aren't to blame, if the company didn't introduce C scale they would have introduced a new contract for everyone. Crew costs had to come down for the company to be competitive, it's a no brainer. You could argue B scale has only remained relatively unchanged because CX chose the gradual introduction of C scale to reduce crew costs. C scale (over B or even A) saved them around $620million last year, or around 10% of what we made aside from fuel pricing. And the savings to the company increase every year.

The chest pounding on here is remenescent of what was heard in 2000-2001, sadly no lessons have been learnt. I'll remind you of some of the more memorable quotes from AOA focus nights 15 yrs ago:

"We'll keep pressure on and get all we want"
"They've never sacked a bunch of guys to send a message"
"Don't worry about a courier package sent to your home from the company, it's nothing"
"If you don't open it you'll keep your job"
"Everyone they've ever sacked has always got their jobs back"
"The public's on our side, they want to see us happy, fare prices don't matter"

I could sadly go on all day. Back in 2000 some of the old timers stood up and said the company doesn't like being bullied, this will get ugly. Well, guess what?

Anotherday,

Couple differences. 1) CX is already scraping the bottom of the barrel both with their terms and conditions as well as the quality of their recruits. There is nothing left to drop, no lower place to go. 2) The pilot shortage is real, not just in terms of numbers but also qualifications. CX cannot afford to be pissing off a bunch of current and qualified crews. Retention rates are already a problem, as are retirements which will see the top 15% of the seniority list leave in the next few years. That was not the case in the 1990's, 2001, or even 2009.

I believe AT does NOT want her bluff called. Their "big fix" will be a mess...