Vote on "Offer"
 

I vote NO effing way.

Resounding NO

Monster, I think it's safe to say almost all that frequent prune or the AOA boards will vote no. The problem is engaging the other chunk that seemingly don't care.

Anyone else...
 

Feeling unfit? Mentally and emotionally, I seriously question whether I should be flying for the foreseeable future. Anyone else?

i find i get a little more unfit the further i get from Hong Kong! Might be able to get to New York, but i might struggle to get back!

I have to agree with Ron on this one, you're preaching to the converted here, it's the G & L flyers as well as the company "yes men" that'll you'll need to convince to vote NO! := However (sigh!) there'll still be those "let's take what we can get" lot who will vote, yes. :ugh:

Let me get this straight:

We were about to engage in CC when they walk in with a white flag and a last minute offer...

Meanwhile, at the lair, many of the flights aren't properly crewed until the day before, CC is red lining plugging holes in the roster.

It seems to me that the whole thing is about to fall off the hinges and that they simply cannot let CC happen, yet they walk in with just before the shutters close to offer us less than what the CXcity janitors got without even asking for it.

They are asking us to accept a pay cut for this year and the next two, not to mention the last 5 or more.

Hmmm. Let me think about that one...

...nope.

Okay the offer is derisory and insulting BUT my opinion is to take it
Tell the company that the membership is accepting it but under duress
there is absolutely nothing to stop us enacting contract compliance the next day and doing our own thing , With all the new aircraft arriving crew control is having an increasingly difficult time crewing flights so a well managed CC will be very effective , but it should have been done during the summer rush ,now fall is here it will not be as effective until Christmas and New Year
Unless you are all prepared to do something about G day workers the small minority will undermine the efforts of the majority

You couldn't be more wrong. Take the crumbs while they eat cake?
He'll no!!!

Vote on "Offer"
 

Like the update says, vote YES if you feel that is all you are worth. Most of the guys I work with are worth far more.

When and where is the focus night?

Sand Man
If you have to ask that question, you are most likely not a member and not welcome.

As Blowback alluded to, the timing is perfect for the company. Summer peak is over, and winter holidays are a few months away. If membership happens to accept the offer, good for the company. If the offer is rejected, CC now won't be nearly as effective as it would have been over the summer or will be in winter - also good for the company. I hope HKAOA takes a play from the same playbook.

take the money... carry on as normal.
 

Accept the offer, take the money.

Don't work G's
Don't answer your phone (S/O's are organised, everybody should be)

We can go back and demand more when they start parking jets.

If they want to play silly buggers, so can we. There is absolutely no need to reject the offer or announce CC. There are no strings attached to this offer, any future offer would certainly have strings. RP's etc.

No need for a "focus night" this is not the sort of advice that the GC can give you.

The key is unity, everyone on the same page. Stop answering your friggin phones!!

All fair points, though I tend to agree with XFR8.

But I have never heard of a company such as this that makes US vote on a pay offer! WTF?!

Did they make the ground staff vote last year? I thought not...

I run a small business and when (rarely, I admit) give a pay increase, it just APPEARS in my peoples' pay.

If CX wishes to pay us more, just put it into our pay packets, and have the testicular fortitude to deal with the fall out later. To do this they are just giving themselves an out.

Don't fall for it. Take the money and go into CC if you want - maybe over 25 year housing?

This is what you call EXPECTATIONS vs REALITY
 

This is what you call EXPECTATIONS vs REALITY


http://www.dramafever.com/st/img/wp/...4.17.31-PM.png

In order to keep my family supported in a sustainable way, there is no way I can vote yes for this. If this truly what CX believes as fair, then it's time to move on to greener and more local pastures. Not sure how they have extorted me to stay this long anyway..... the beatings will continue until morale improves. Fortunately, I believe this will be the first 100% vote against anything in AOA history.

What this offer has not even addressed:

Pollution override
Expensive city override
Education costs override (they don't pay 100%)
School bus override (it's free in most of the world)
DB bus cost override (it takes a small fortune to go to work)
Political instability override (china is about to take over HK and merge CX with Air China)
Insurance that sucks override
FOC override (it's not free! and it's not always confirmable)
"We don't follow your contract" override - because CX does what they want with minimal AOA resistance


and the list goes on..... WHY are we here still?????

Take the bloody money now and deal with the future tomorrow! We are still in time for official CC and nobody force you to work on G days or answer the phone......
My two cents.

Agree with all your sentiment guys.

However, after Pay and Rostering is sorted, then the issue of Housing will come up. Be warned, they are COMING for it.

Isn't it better to save the One Round in the barrel for that?

XFR8

Listen to an old guy...we have seen all of this before.

Accept everything that is offered...but stick to the same game plan that is already in place.

PS. Stop answering the phone. Having said that, unfortunately, there will always be guys out there feathering their own nests. This will NEVER change so we need to factor that in and work with the reality. :-)

If we accept this nonsense then they will conclude that we're likely to be a pushover on everything else; including RP's and housing. Start as you mean to go on!

So, how many managers are on this forum saying "take the money"? This is crazy..... people should be saying "give the money" because that is effectively what is happening if anybody votes for it. If we agree to anything short of inflation, then of course the company will come for housing because we are spineless. If we make our position known and are willing to act, then they will not dare touch housing. Housing is in writing anyway, right? that was part of the last craptacular deal we shoved down our own throats.

It's a fair deal. Just take it and shut up with all your whining. If you can't carve out a good living on b scale with housing you need to be complaining some place else. The guys on the pilots allowance need a better deal if they are single they do ok but once family comes along these guys struggle. For those of you that think the 49ers won't happen again. Think again. They have air china and china southern on standby to operate our flights. Our little disruption will be un sustainable to all you guys on the poverty line as your wife's go to their tennis lessons and luncheons. Be real. The job is good but like everything there are plenty of brown grass in our field. But don't think the next field will be any greener. Take the deal live your life and be happy for once instead of always bitching about crap.
:D:=

So 330, you reject the offer. they come back with a lower offer, except its not an offer, it will appear in your pay-packet.

What are you going to do? Strike?

Been there done that. Take the money and stick to the plan. If no-ones explained the plan to you, ask an SO.

Obviously, guys calling for a YES vote are not NZ, AUS or US based, or LEP...

Just a bunch of selfish pricks.

No, we will continue in CC. And most important of all,

WE CAN WALK WITH OUR HEADS HELD HIGH.

You should try it sometime XFR8, you might like it.

:ugh:

If a union board needs to get it's members to vote then they do not have the confidence of their members, and thus gives the company the confidence in a weak union to manipulate - in other words you are at the mercy of the company.

@RAT

I read this four times and still don't know what it means. Next time you wanna pretend you're a mngt stooge, maybe have your wife do a grammar check for you sweetie. Or one of the girls at the cash register at Cafe Coral. Their Engrishee is better than your sh1te.

Ask the USAB FO's how it worked out when they took the COS08 deal now so they could negotiate it years later. Make no mistake, if you take this deal now that is all you will get.

Threethirty,

Were you able to attend the focus night? This one is a long game, and many who have been here to see it all recommend we take the money with nothing attached and continue on down the path we have already chosen. I tend to agree with them. The big fight is going to be for RPs and housing, and we better still have a bullet in the chamber.

box

The pay for oz and NZ is based upon CX paying something close to what the widebody carriers down there pay. So on the case of NZ, though those on the base don't like to mention the elephant in the room, it's pretty obvious why they got the 1% offer by the company. Don't have an opinion on it, can't say how long the current situation will last, just saying.....

The concept of taking the money that is on the table is divisive and floored. Under this deal the Canadian Base gets nothing, the Australian Base gets nothing, the NZ Base gets almost nothing and the rest get a very poor percentage increase (which we all know is negative in real terms).

There is no point further debating if this offer should have been presented or not. It has been presented so it is what it is. There now seems to be two options:

1. Vote yes, and some elements of the group get a minor increase in pay and many get close to nothing or absolutely nothing. As I understand it, those represented by the HKAOA will then be stuck with this for three years and those in Canada and Australia will have no leverage at all to improve their lot.

2. Vote no, lose nothing at all and be in a strong position to have a better deal presented in the coming months.

Experience
 

20 years in CX with the AOA lead me to want to accept. We have rarely if ever been offered anything without other strings attached. This is . Salary is important but we have bigger issues as a pilot group. The companies problems with moral and sickness etc don't stem from Salary. They come from Rostering,Housing,Bases... If they believe that the offer will solve those issues they are delusional. We take the offer and carry on pushing hard for the issues that really matter as mentioned above. The thorns in their side of sickness and an noncompliant workforce will remain , if not worsen..

Okay shoot me down in flames if you like but
1) contract compliance will hurt them to a point , but I don't think enough to make them come back with a better offer
2) I have seen the union reject a pay offer before , We never got the offered increase , or the figure we were demanding so loose loose
3) there will always be crew who will break ranks and help out, working on G days etc , Unless we are prepared to take unified action against those individuals the effects of contact compliance will be diminished but there are ways around this
4) 4% is on the table now , for most anyway , as for those who are getting less we can fight for more later .

Take the offer, secure the pay rise , and then move immediately to Contact compliance and the old WOE campaign( withdrawal of enthusiasm ) . Combined they will be much more effective You are an intelligent group of people ,work it out for yourselves how best to achieve that goal . I don't want to put ideas down in print but I can think of any number of things to do

I understand the frustration with the offer, it sucks!! but unless you are ALL prepared to do everything that is required CC will in all probability not bring them back to the table . So why not take the increase and do CC anyway, the end result will be the same if its going to work we will secure a better deal in a few months , if it doesn't we are still 4% ahead

My 2cents worth

Take the #$%ing money and move on to other pressing issues.. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Why the rush to discuss housing and RPs?
The company needs them, not me.

They can wait until we all get a proper salary adjustment.

This is extremely worrisome reading all this baloney.
This is about pay and pay only , its not matched anybodies expectations whatsoever . Pay rise first then we march on , this is not the time for all this bickering , everyone just needs to keep calm . Sit on your hands and do not blink. There is a myriad of other issues that need sorting out . If we blink now we throw away our advantage .Rostering and housing can be sorted with the RPs
Do not budge ladies and gents.

How many would leave if the rise was 1/1/1 for all, not many.

The current deal.

It's targeted at retention not fairness or inflation. If it is rejected then in 6 months time there will be an inferior one on the table, perhaps no back dating. If it is accepted then the next target will be xxx and pitched accordingly. This is no longer a career airline and has not been for several years.

Reject the offer and see no pay correction for years, but will perhaps make the co think twice about axing too quickly.

The present CEO is intent on cutting costs our salaries are in his gun sight.

The question should be: "how many would vote NO and go into CC if the offer had been 1% for all"

Ask the SOs how many have already applied to other airlines in their home country. And that's after only 2 years in the company.

A lot of people forget that we got 0% last year. The company's bench-marking does not take into account what other pilots make at all, but it is in line with what most other "raises" will be this year. We are way behind in terms of wage only.

The company is happy.... because it knows some yahoos here will want this offer. It also knows that this will be a breaking point for some and they will leave. Then, they can replace these pilots with cheaper C scale, no housing, CEA, etc... workers that heard about CX through "I can fly" rather than flying airplanes for a living.

Ive been here long enought to know that Contract compliance does not work. It will make zero differance to the way we are crewing our aircraft. Been there done that!

The offer is not going to get better

There are no productivity increases attached.

It is backdated to January.

I will vote yes and take the money. Will fight for more when it comes to RP.