The Aoac negotiates with SK. You are telling me that after separating they want back in? Yes, having the two groups together would be great..... Are you going on contract compliance with us? What about MSS? When you do that, you are welcome back with open arms imho. no excuses. Until that day, talk is cheap.

Interesting to see how successful CC and MSS will work for us if that's what is decided. Probably the same result as the last several attempts.

airplaneridesrfun, have you asked the onshored Aussies if they can do CC and MSS?

The answer is, just as for AOA C, No they can't - because both are bound by law not to join in another's dispute.

CC is not joining in another's dispute. CC is not a militant action. Most employers would be glad to have their workforce upholding their side of the 'contract'!!

If you told any pilot in British Airways what this whole fuss surrounding contract compliance involved he or she would look at you with shear bewilderment. The idea of going beyond what the contract entails is an alien concept to pilots in most airlines. The very fact that we have CC in our lexicon indicates what a bizarre corner we find ourselves in, it's as if we have been brainwashed over the years into thinking that just working to what we signed is somehow bad and dragging ones feet! The level of Stockholm syndrome around us knows no bounds.

Of course it's falling apart.

Take the title, AOA, Air Officers Association. FFS! What a w:mad:d out, archaic title. Do you really think any corporate outfit is going to take any union or associate seriously?? Your in China. A brutal dictatorship, not a squadron tea club.

Dear Oval3Holer,

The AOA is an organisation for aircrew to try and improve their working conditions and lives and at the same time look after each other and their profession.

If you are not interested in that objective, then so be it...

FR

It comes down to a simple choice. Either you belong to the AOA, contribute to the debate and the overall financial health of a communal organisation that tries it's best to help the common good of the pilots, or you don't. Frankly, if you don't, you are nothing more than a freeloader who is too cheap to do the only thing available to us. I frequently don't agree with the AOA's position or methods. However, they are the only game in town. Either put up or shut up. I have zero respect for non-members. Don't cry to me about your problems if you are not a member. :mad:

Hey Benny,

At your age your memory is letting you down. Suggest you get back in the History Books.

An extremely weak and inaccurate comparison. 1/10 Must do better:D

Let's face it the aoa is not interested in improving our lot, when have they ever achieved anything for us of substance? All this talk of the aoa as a saviour is bollox, face the facts.

The AOA is not just interested in improving our lot, but also resisting CX efforts to worsen it. I can assure you, it could be a lot worse.

Furthermore those who have had welfare assistance and advice and those requesting representation during D & G procedures realise that there is more to the AOA than getting Headline pay rises (although that would be nice).

Merry Christmas to all.:ok:

Spot on
 

Busy B, well said. :D

Merry Xmas.

Many of these posts appear to be self-conscious justifications from non-members for not joining up and contributing to the common effort. The AOA are far from perfect as they are essentially a bunch of pilots ie guys like you and me, volunteering their time.

Some are based some are B scale some are F scale some have housing, they are all different and as a result have different opinions. However they have the ungrateful task or representing us against a fiercely cost-conscious management for whom we are merely cost units.

Being a member at the very least buys you a "right to whinge": if you're not a member then in reality you sit on the company's side of the table during any negotiation, and in truth have no right to complain.

Yes the AOA are far from perfect (as recent events have shown) but they are a heck of a lot better than nothing, and without the AOA to occasionally put up a fight, management would be running roughshod over our contracts even more than they already are (witness SHP claims, freighter PXing etc etc).

Merry Christmas.

Uh Oh
 

Word in the biosphere is the AOA has hired a Gen Sec that maybe worse than the last? What you guys/gals need is a former mob boss turned informant who upon release from prison became an attorney and knows how to "negotiate" (Read "Convince") people how things are to be done!

Or in the very least a New York lawyer who has experience in law and negotiations. Another ALPA lackey I don't believe is going to work for you fine folks over at green.

Is your president really trying to sell you folks in the AOA this rubbish? Hate to say this, I really do, but you guys/gals have a pretty ****ty association run by what appears to be ****ty leadership.

For the love of God and before its too late, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!:ugh:

Is it that bad?

Maybe the AOA should change it's name to The Kowloon Lodge.

I'm baffled. It is actually true.

Pilots are million dollar morons.

This Gen Sec we have just hired presided, and signed off on the worst contract ever imposed on any US Carrier to date. (US Airways) What the heck are we thinking? Don't we hire based on past proven results? Yikes. :bored:

Well said. I have given up hope of ever getting a significantly improved deal. Afterall, why would management ever agree to that? If things can be prevented from getting much worse, then thats a win already with this lot.

I am utterly amazed, at first I thought it can't be true but have we really just hired the guy responsible for the worst deal ever achieved in the US, a country with far stronger labour laws than here.

ARE YOU GUYS TOTALLY FUC:mad:ING INSANE.
ARE YOU GUYS TOTALLY FUChttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/censored.gifING INSANE.
ARE YOU GUYS TOTALLY FUChttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/censored.gifING INSANE.
ARE YOU GUYS TOTALLY FUChttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/censored.gifING INSANE.

First we get shafted by the Company with full consent from the GC, now we get a useless GenSec with a track record that would make the grim reaper jealous...

Am I seeing a pattern here?

And what's the membership doing? Fighting for those LHR spots like rotten scraps of food given to famished badgers by an Ethiopian zookeeper.
Where's the outrage?

It's all going to hell in a shopping cart and no one gives a crap.
Merry Xmas. (Now that I know what it means...)