The AOA is falling apart
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The AOA is falling apart
For those of you who are AOA members, you can see it on the AOA forum.
Reality has finally hit many in the face.
The company will give what it wants, when it wants, in exchange for what it wants. Period.
Reality has finally hit many in the face.
The company will give what it wants, when it wants, in exchange for what it wants. Period.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Union's/associations are only there to provide a false sense of security to the group. In my experience over the years in several different countries with several different unions, they are only an extension of the company itself. The graft and corruption run deeper than any think, unions, governments, companies. The only way for things to improve is to resign en masse, or to unify outside of a union message board. Those worthless boards have never produced any good change. It is another false sense of improvement. Venting on a board does nothing. The unity must come to the group outside of the association. The union is part of the problem. If it isn't evident now, after this complete leg sweep, you are truly blind.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How airline pilot negotiations really go. Don't worry CX pilots, with all of your divisions, this will be how it goes for you too. For some strange reason, as smart as pilots are, they NEVER learn.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Paradise
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Short answer?
Provided incredibly insightful and invaluable guidance, as to be expected from someone with a near-unparalleled experience in all things Aviation Industry related.
Including but not limited to:
- Bargaining Framework
- Negotiations techniques
- Contract construction and protections
- Media liaison
- Benchmarking
- Legal case construction
- Economic and accounting guidance...etc...
As usual, a PPrune arm chair expert thinks him/herself better than a veteran of the job. Are you John Cleese's character in this clip by any chance??
Including but not limited to:
- Bargaining Framework
- Negotiations techniques
- Contract construction and protections
- Media liaison
- Benchmarking
- Legal case construction
- Economic and accounting guidance...etc...
As usual, a PPrune arm chair expert thinks him/herself better than a veteran of the job. Are you John Cleese's character in this clip by any chance??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Where You Aren't
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- Bargaining Framework
- Negotiations techniques
- Negotiations techniques
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Short reply
A good list superfrozo.
Now write under each of your points exactly what he has achieved compared to what I have (not) seen:
- Bargaining Framework - what bargaining has resulted in anything?
- Negotiations techniques - again, what results?
- Contract construction and protections - what protection (apart from Canada where he spat the dummy and walked away)
- Media liaison - I don't see any great press for CX pilots
- Benchmarking - really?
- Legal case construction - FO Bypass, SHP? When does construction give a result?
- Economic and accounting guidance...etc... - I'm now lost for words.
Now write under each of your points exactly what he has achieved compared to what I have (not) seen:
- Bargaining Framework - what bargaining has resulted in anything?
- Negotiations techniques - again, what results?
- Contract construction and protections - what protection (apart from Canada where he spat the dummy and walked away)
- Media liaison - I don't see any great press for CX pilots
- Benchmarking - really?
- Legal case construction - FO Bypass, SHP? When does construction give a result?
- Economic and accounting guidance...etc... - I'm now lost for words.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who, soperfrozo or me?
He listed all the superlatives in defence of our illustrious leader and all I asked is for him to back it up with evidence. I'm not the only one asking these questions.
He listed all the superlatives in defence of our illustrious leader and all I asked is for him to back it up with evidence. I'm not the only one asking these questions.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The evidence lies in the fact that the AOA has the best chance in decades to make up significant lost ground, not just on pay but working conditions as well. The naysayers will disagree, and they are right in that it could end up a real disaster as well. Our best weapon is not CC but high sickness rates. The company knows that if they don't strike a deal that the AOA membership sees as fair, then the sickness rates will remain the highest in the industry. So keep your expectations high and your productivity low.
I, for one, will not judge DD or anyone on the NC until I see what they can do in the coming months. They have the tools. I expect them to use them. Off soapbox...
I, for one, will not judge DD or anyone on the NC until I see what they can do in the coming months. They have the tools. I expect them to use them. Off soapbox...
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: az
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The company paying our EO claim and finally signing an appropriately worded 25 year housing agreement would have been "good faith" items that we could have possibly postponed CC for. Instead, we have given into the company requiring officers to sign cos 08 to take a base because we achieved a very minuscule victory of not requiring BPP to be paid back. Maybe next time lets skip CC and go to MSS...... And only downgrade it if we get certain items... Like our 10 weeks leave back, and a normal 76 hour a month overtime threshold.
Instead, we now are being preached to by the union that PBS is good and we may have to give up some productivity....that is complete BS. Thee must be a common denominator in all of this and perhaps we should have an internal investigation in the AOA. Who has been in admin the longest? Who sold SLS and Cos 08 to begin with and why? Are they pushing forward the companies agenda today in the same way as before?
I'm with the AOA but wish we had hoffa's resolve. The 3rd floor is laughing at us right now.
Instead, we now are being preached to by the union that PBS is good and we may have to give up some productivity....that is complete BS. Thee must be a common denominator in all of this and perhaps we should have an internal investigation in the AOA. Who has been in admin the longest? Who sold SLS and Cos 08 to begin with and why? Are they pushing forward the companies agenda today in the same way as before?
I'm with the AOA but wish we had hoffa's resolve. The 3rd floor is laughing at us right now.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Over There
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes they are but a little bird tells me the AOAC won't let that happen and they have more power then many understand.
This is why we need to regroup with AOAC and not force our greatest asset to act alone. They are willing to work with us so what's our problem?
Before someone spews some vile about they can't be trusted, all sour grapes crafted by the HKAOA spin doctors, I urge you to look at ourselves and ask who within us can be 100% trusted?
This is who we are. A bunch of individuals each with our own ideas and visions of what "it should be". At least the AOAC works as one where we work as 1600 individuals!
This is why we need to regroup with AOAC and not force our greatest asset to act alone. They are willing to work with us so what's our problem?
Before someone spews some vile about they can't be trusted, all sour grapes crafted by the HKAOA spin doctors, I urge you to look at ourselves and ask who within us can be 100% trusted?
This is who we are. A bunch of individuals each with our own ideas and visions of what "it should be". At least the AOAC works as one where we work as 1600 individuals!