Retirement at 68
 

Rumour has it that Cathay has worked out the only way to crew all the new heavy metal is to increase the retirement age to 68.........................Seems the head of IATA is helping to make it happen.................

Rumour is this time the AOA and all pilots, regardless of COS, will stick together and will enact strict contract compliance until those adversely affected by unilateral offers of yet another new COS receive appropriate and worthwhile compensation for the further destruction of their career progress and decreased earnings, without having to work 13 extra years.

Good rumour, huh!

Nice try but the majority are going at about 60-62 so they could make the retirement age 100 and it would make no difference.

I don' t ever fly overtime (744), nor most of the guys I talk to, apart from maybe a couple of hours.
This alleged crewing problem everybody seems to talk about might be a bit inflated..

I am on the Bus. 90 hours each month. B777 guys are hitting their 900 hour limits. There is a shortage.

711
Obviously didn't ask me 10-15/month rostered for the last 8 months apart from a leave month.

My second month with OT in 12. Usually 70 hrs. (B744)

IATA don't make those kind of decisions

but they certainly influence them.

"the majority are going at about 60-62??? wtf??
The majority will be going at 55 as per their CoS

I'm not working a day over 70! I swear!!!

Probably end up "as long as you hold a class one medical"

Does anyone know the scientifically proven age you decide you like flying through the night with no sleep and permanently feeling like a zombie...retire at 65? If they keep up this roster till then I'd die the next day. (mind you I'd have four bars by then and define my existence by them aye Jizz)

Hi Jizz.

Let me guess... You fall into the group that;
A) Signed with CoS 08 that bennifitted many at the expense of a few.
B) Voted for the pay rise that had something for the majority and SFA for a few.
And
C) Bitched ceaselessly about the profit share that bennifitted the majority but had little in it for others.

See the hypocrisy here by any chance? If not, you're not alone. It's quite a unique group of self serving individuals that make up the Cathay Pacific Team

Hi Progress,

Let me guess...you fall into the group that:

a) voluntarily agreed to join on inferior conditions
b) haven't done anything to attempt to improve conditions
c) most likely don't belong to the AOA (but will take any benefits they negotiate)

See the hypocrisy here by any chance? If not, you're not alone. It's quite a unique group of self serving individuals that make up the Cathay Pacific Team

a) Yes
b) Yes
c) Yes

No hypocrisy there. Very consistent.

The majority will be going at 55 as per their CoS
 

Wrong. It's a sad fact but the majority, and its growing, are on CoS08 with age 65. AAR

Sad bunch...
I get it... Old guys need to feel like they're king or whatever.. God only knows! New guys not so much.
I know not directed at me...
a) voluntarily agreed to join on inferior conditions
b) haven't done anything to attempt to improve conditions
c) most likely don't belong to the AOA (but will take any benefits they negotiate)

But answers from my side..
No (well B scale but A scale was years previous)
I like to think I've done my bit.. Support the union, sign what I'm asked to and write in when required.. I'm up for whatever is out forward to improve our conditions.
Yep strong AOA supporter... What else I got? Tennis with RH gonna help me?

And an aside.... Personally I signed and have maintained a contract that has me retiring at age 55 whilst I don't really blame anyone that works longer, I do pity them! Get a life! Have a go at me for saying this... I'm dumbfounded by the amount of guys I fly with that have 'a nice big house' they don't own or at least partly own c/o Cathay (and moan they cant afford to stop working!) whilst in the mean time I like many others that don't care about the status, have bought property that Cathay is paying for and plan to leave as per my marridge certificate and Cathay Pacific's COS, one in death do us part... The other till I'm 55!!. I am saving for my retirement and hoping like hell I leave with the same wife while I can still attend my children's school camps, balls, sports days, uni graduation and 21st without some idiots telling me that no sorry cannot your the only one on reserve, o day, g day, leave, long service leave, maternity leave, or wankers cramp so you gotta do it!

Age 55 was always to young to 'retire'. Even if you have the money, what exactly do you do at 55. Most of us like our jobs, and enjoy for the most part going to work. If someone wants to keep working....guess what, it's none of your business why they choose to do so. As a matter of fact, most of the 'young' set who seem to feel they have a right to state when others should retire are actually helping establish a mindset whereupon people resent the implication they are not welcome after a working career, and resolve to stay as long as possible. At the end of the day, people have a right to work to whatever retirement age is applicable. Any argument to the contrary is futile. I suspect many of the junior members with a strong opinion on the matter will 'surprisingly' change their tune when they get into their late 40's...

Ok maybe I'll go to 75 if they promise me a simulator job or a base!😁

Tornado,

That would be true, were it not for the contract everyone (before) signed that provided a certain rate of progression in pay and benefits through seniority-based system up to the maximum age of 55. No different than all those guys who joined the army or air force with a contract for a certain number of years, or any other contract. Nobody said you have to "retire" at 55: That is just when the contract you signed expires. You can work anywhere else you wish, but you don't get to benefit from the progression brought on by the contract (others ahead of you had to retire at 55) and then complain that it's not fair that you have to go then too.

Perhaps those who think working as long as they wish in a seniority-based career should lose 10 yrs of seniority progression when they turn 55, and go back to the pay and benefits (and rank, and requests, and leave, etc.) they could hold after losing 10 years of seniority, as has effectively happened to those who had 10 years (or so) added to their progression with RA65....then we'll see how much they love going to work still at age 56-65?

Iron,

So all those B scalers who have signed COS 08 should just throw their hands up and retire at the original 55 years of age also...? Or just the A scalers...? I suppose the new joiners who have joined without housing should then not accept housing if the company offers it in the future...? The fact is everyone will take an improvement if it's offered. Additionally, to suggest that 'some' pilots should not take an extension in working years, yet other 'should' be able to take advantage of it is basically you playing 'god' (no pun intended in your case!) with the determination of such categories. Who decides who should and who shouldn't. The fact is that people in all age and seniority groups have taken advantage of the extension to age 65. The fact is that an individual has a right to work until whatever age they can no longer do the job. You (or I) do not have the right to determine someone else's working longevity. The matte is settled at this point....there is no going back. In fact, I suspect that quite soon it will be illegal to force someone to stop working based on age. Cat 1 Medical will be the determining factor. As an aside to your argument. If you had joined an airline back in the US/Canada/Europe, you would be facing exactly the same issue. They have all incorporated the age 65 rule. But I suppose it's only CX pilots who should supposedly show some altruism and deny themselves the additional economic security of the extra decade of work.

Tornado Ali.....well said totally agree. It was an issue which was almost unsolvable and because of entrenched and divided views the company knew it and once again unilaterally imposed a fix to suit themselves with massive cost savings straight into the bottom line.

The money spent on bypass pay and productivity gains from increased retirement age should have been bundled up and used for increasing increments particularly for first officers and the cutting salaries based on age, should have been stopped in its tracks.

However CX got what they wanted.....increased retirement age and by pass pay being funded by age discrimination pay cuts to those over 55 and increments cutting out way too early. Our inability (mainly our younger crew) to recognize that it was inevitable RA 55 was history has led us to kicking an own goal or two.

In the mean time I am curious to know ...is bypass pay still being paid out to folks on a base who have not accepted a command in Hong Kong?

That's why bypass pay exists.

The rest I deleted due to extreme boredom with moronic comebacks like the one below.

..ahh yes, the old 'im too bored to check' brush off. The usual resort of those who can't properly support their argument. As I said, those who are working at most North American airlines are now working to 65. It's pretty simple really.....even for you.

Ok ok! 73 with no housing and a comuting roster in economy class would do!:{

Old men that can't accept there is an end to everything..

The list of these pathetic fools is endless : frail African dictators, aging premier league footballer yobs, the pope, Jeremy Clarkson, and now the 65 year old pilots who want to go on, of course in the left hand seat with all the benefits, seniority etc.

A social life orbiting around The Stauntons ( HKG base) or the Gay Bar ( not HKG based),no friends,no money even sometimes, estranged wife and a humiliated domestic helper at home, sweating when the visibility falls below 2000m, what a way to end a "career"...:yuk:

...or, someone who takes pride in their profession, enjoys the lifestyle, still enjoys the challenge, and likes a reason to get up in the morning (and doesn't give a sh*t what the skaterboarders think).

Tornado Ali
 

With you 100%. Perfectly put.

As someone else pointed out, you're not a professional: You're an employee.

The lifestyle? It's great, except that part about working, and so often being surrounded by people you'd rather not be surrounded by instead of those who matter (assuming you matter to anyone).

If you regularly or frequently feel challenged, you're got some serious issues with reality. Once every 10 years doesn't make up for the extreme nothingness of every other flight.

No other reason to get up in the morning? No wonder you'd rather work than live.

Nobody cares what skateboarders think. I'd venture to say nobody really cares what you think, either.

Enjoy your next awesome take off and landing! Note: It will be exactly like everyone else's 1000000 others that day, and every day. Woo hoo!

Come on, man...oh, I get it now, you're just joking about all that! Got me, funny guy!

Ok, ok! 75 and I'll do it on FO pay :ok:

I was thinking after 65 I could "reverse mortgage" my career by paying them to come to work. The longer they let me work, the higher the rate. That way they can cover the hull loss when I finally take my last breath, unless of course that few hundred hour cadet FO can save the day.

cxorcist, you get the Reply of the Month award! :D

I think Frogman is a close 2nd.

b.

My final offer.
73, comuting roster in EConomy class ( I'll pay half!)
No housing,
I'll only do night flight.
You must allow my grand child who is 15 to join the cadet program, which of course he will pay for!:D
Of course I'll accept FO wages due to my reduced mental capacity and experience. :ok:

All these posts just reflect the CRM issues in this company ,..it's not easy to find another pilot body with so many overestimated (old) individuals like in CX - although quite limited in their operating skills and leadership

So now young pilots like Climbout and his buddies, who everyone knows are the real stick and rudder aviators in our midst, are calling the senior pilots of this Company..."overestimated (old)...and quite limited in their operating skills and leadership..."

Ha, Ha, Ha! What is this...irony??

This latest slur from a group of loudmouths with experience levels inversely proportional to their ego and who are part of a dwindling number of poorly experienced "pilots" to accept the ever diminishing and watered down benefits package offered by Cathay.

What's more, only after Cathay lowered...and lowered....and lowered....what was being offered.

And now we are reaching out to third world countries in an attempt to recruit even more "high quality" recruits like Climbout and his buddies...?

Never mind those "overestimated" pilots they hired twenty years ago.....I guess that when it comes to skillful pilots, there is no relationship between skill level and flying hours in a logbook. To the bean counters, and obviously pilots like Climbout, less is more!

Climbout....bravo! That the most astute observation I have seen!:ok::D:D::D

cxorcist...not only will the 300 hour cadet F/O save the day, he will do so with the finese and elan that will completely floor you that you will find yourself staring at the sandals of good old St Pete.