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Reminds you of what?
Copied from a US message board;
Quote: Originally Posted by corky How is Emirates training course from (if hired) from day 1 to checked to the line? Corky, I absolutely despise Emirates' training course. It is probably one of the worst experiences you will go through. Some people will say that it has gotten loads better over the years, well, its not good enough. List of problems. 1. Course is self-taught. There is a mentality here that being taught by an instructor is being "spoon-fed". I do not buy into that mentality as a lot of students learn better when the ability to ask questions while a course is progressing is afforded rather than just throwing a student in front of a computer system and a large pile of books and telling them to learn it. This is absolute laziness on the part of the instructors and the training department, not the student....the students have their platters full already. 2. EK has developed this sporty grading system that they think is really awesome. Unfortunately, the system allows instructors to grade you down on you not using their "technique" rather than just pass/fail on the use of SOP's specifically listed in the book. These guys will go so far as to read between the lines in the SOP's to convince you that their technique is actually an SOP and if you argue with them you will either be graded down more or marched up to the training managers office for a meeting. While I think MM is a great guy and wants to change things more, his hands are tied by those above his head. 3. EVERY event in training begins with the proverbial dick measuring circle. Tell us about where you came from and what you have flown. God help you if you are an RJ guy. You will immediately have a preconceived stigmata branded on your forehead that says you don't know anything and can't fly. During training, a couple of my friends studied with their flight partners, learned the same material, and did things exactly the same way as him (not in the sim, in the fixed base procedures trainer). Their flight partners (UK Boeing guys) got higher marks than they did probably because of a favorable nationality to the trainer and the Boeing background. Could they have complained. Yes. Would it have made things worse for them....yes. So they kept their mouths shut during the training. 4. If you are from the US, nothing that you learned in the US is right. Our radio procedures are all non-standard (to them) and apparently aircraft fly differently in Australia and the UK than they do in the US because all these guys want to re-train you on the "proper" way to fly an airplane and talk on the radio. Despite the fact that the USA has one of the best safety records and the lowest accident rates in the world, us "yanks" do not have enough book smarts and "airmanship" (a VERY overused term here) to make the engines turn smoothly on an Emirates Aircraft. With all that said, if you just suck up your pride, nod your head, roll with the punches, and say "oh, I see" a lot, you will get through the training in one piece and be happy out on the line. There are TONS of great guys here that are good to fly with. I am not one to say bad things about EK, but this is the one area that I would love to see them clean house in and change the way things are done. We all have the same goal in mind and that is to be happy and make some money while enjoying our work. AFTER training all those goals are met. |
cg, pleeeeeease change your name. have mercy.
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From the same thread....
2 years into flying in Australia, after 12 years in the US, I've come to the conclusion it's because they have sub-concious feeling of inferiority. It's almost as if they (the Australians in particular) have to make operating an aircraft as difficult as possible, just to prove they're better at it. I've come across some of the most mis-placed arrogance, I've ever witnessed in what is a pretty "cocky" profession, from guys who've never flown outside of Australia. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud to be Australian and my heritage but they do a great job of sucking the fun out of what can be a great job. |
Sad but true.
Some of the biggest pricks you will ever fly with are from OZ & I'm from Oz so I'm allowed to say so. I remember being verbally abused for 20 minutes on the way to Inchon one day. B777 approaching cloud "engine anti ice on", came out of cloud "engine anti ice off" as we did in the old procedures. Well slap me silly you'd think I'd just tried to steer it into a mountain. "You don't have the big picture, what are you doing? are you even thinking ahead of the aircraft? there's more cloud coming up soon! Why did you turn it off? did you consider just leaving it on?? 1.) No A-hole I didn't consider leaving it on as the cloud is about 30 miles away 2.) Even if I did forget it's a 300 million dollar plane and it knows perfectly well when to do it itself. 3.) Change Of Procedures - "Engine Anti Ice Stays In Auto" just like the people who made the thing recommended in the first place. My head is starting to hurt from banging this brick wall :ugh: |
Americans do have the worst R/T in the industry.
It may be ok in Des Moines, Dallas or Denver, but it's blatantly obvious when they get outside their comfort zone. It's not the fault of the foreign controller who has limited English. It's the fault of the non-standard pilot. |
Here here HR,
I have seen it too - the insecurity, immaturity, aggro, hand throwing, scowling, swearing and a real lack of humility. A generalisation sure, but applies to a majority who act cocksure but don't have much to back it up with. Not much fun in it these days when sharing a cockpit with these ones. |
It's not the fault of the foreign controller who has limited English. It's the fault of the non-standard pilot. Witnessed this in Indonesia with an anal Bifo trying to explain to ATC that we wanted to start one at the gate. After about 5 minutes of back and forth, the controller gave up and said approved - without really knowing what it was this **** wanted to do. It was fun to watch though, I never knew someone's face could change color so much. Poor ol' guy certainly had a lot to say about how bad the controller's RT was. I'm sure he felt great and superior, but the end result was that the message was not received. To me, he has lost sight of the big picture. Communication is a two way street, you have to be able to pick up on the cues when your message is not getting across. That to me, is way more important than standard RT. And if there is any doubt, then you should receive confirmation, hopefully in a separate round-about way without providing the answer to the controller (say again please?). If this requires non-standard lingo, then so be it. |
Sounds like an everyday trip with Toss to me!:ok:
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Sqwak
Spot on. You have to learn to say everything twice in different phraseology without sounding condescending. 'You can say that again'...is a classic example that causes repetition but no understanding:ok: |
I remember back in Kai Tak days Pan Am requesting taxy. "Clipper 8 twenty two four burning ready to roll....." The controller sent the Fire trucks straight away!!
Yep, their RT sounds cool in the states but can be misunderstood everywhere else!! Your not in Kansas anymore Dorathy :ok: |
I remember back in Kai Tak days Pan Am requesting taxy. "Clipper 8 twenty two four burning ready to roll....." The controller sent the Fire trucks straight away!! |
Nitpicker330...name says it all!
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Unfortunately outfits like EK, CX, RBA, KAL, EY, etc afforded the opportunities for such insufferable miscreants to be launched well above their station. They created situations to lock themselves into positions of power in these fortresses. This all hark back to the days of colonialism of their forefathers. Same games, different names.
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Lest we forget "The Speedbird 26" or "The Cathay 251"
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no-one speaks on the radio like that |
I had a relaxing round of golf with an Emirates mate during his command course. He was relaxed and enjoying the upgrade. He's file did not go to a Star chamber before and after his command, he did not have to do meaningless P.C.A's.
E.K. promoted him in seniority on his fleet, based on his overall performance. No major hick up's during RT/ PC's and line checks and you are good to go. And no " you have passed but wait for the Star chamber to sit on Friday" They trust their trainers to shake your hand , and hand you your 4 bars. So some might have a problem with the initial culture shock, but it does get better. Until they fire 49 pilots "for no apparent reason" I must believe their system is better |
tower replies: where is the engine now That is the difference with the RT police. They are so busy with the language that they forget about the message. A personality trait in many terrible pilots, people who will go down in flames with a book on their lap. Most try to compensate for their incompetence by over-emphasizing the minutia. I can't believe airline psych evaluations haven't evolved to weed out such personalities. |
Is it my imagination, or do some people take themselves far too seriously?
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Point of Order
Until they fire 49 pilots "for no apparent reason" I must believe their system is better |
wraith
Mate,
If you are going to put names on here that are identifiable, as you have just done, can we please have your real name. You are bordering on defamation, in fact it is defamation. Don't hide if you are going to name. |
There you go, Route...all done.
By the way, sounding a bit Australian there yourself......Mate! Perhaps, whilst you are happy to take potshots at the septics, as you so eloquently call them, you are less tolerant of any attacks upon your own fair race? Have a Merry one! :ok: |
routetuner
You would have had a better argument if you had commented using YOUR real name! |
There are varying degrees of competence amongst the general flight crew populus but to single out a particular nationality as exhibiting degrees of unsuitability to a particular environment speaks more about the author than the subject matter. This comment is directed at you Dan. I would wager you confine those comments to an forum that grants you anoniminity. A dose of maturity would go a long way to curing your ills.
The same can be said for you Wraith. I would encourage AC to find out your identity and persue you. I do not blame either of you two "gentlemen" for your comments but I do hold our recruitment criteria to account. Give it some thought . As a general comment, I tire of flying with children. If the travelling public knew some of the history of those that inhabit forward of the flight deck door they would insist on taking the train. |
Well put Firewall, It also worries me I probably fly with several children so immature that would choose a name like c*mguzz*** of J*zmonkey. Agree that there are people of all nationalaties that let down the majority of their countrymen when it comes to manners and abilities in the flight deck. It is simply illogical to generalize on this one. One of the best pilots I ever flew with does not have any of his nationality employed in CX and would fly the pants of every one of us, even the self confessed intelligent one, CXorsist
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Firewall,
This is an anonymous site, and anonymous for a reason. I don't see you, or Routetuner or anyone else posting your real identities when you post things that are less than complimentary....Route calling Americans Septics etc..... Also, for defamation to stand...and incidentally it is libel in this case as it is written....it has to show malice and also the statement has to be false. Firstly, there was no malice in what I have posted, and also there has been nothing false. I would advise you to simply "ask around" on your flights and see the response you get. Ask the CC as well, as they have a lot on Facebook about their experiences. There is no smoke without fire, and if you should decide to step down from your lofty perch up there on your high horse and "ask around" I think you will discover that there is A LOT of fire. As for pursuing (spelling!) people, well, as previously mentioned, this is an ANONYMOUS forum. Perhaps you and Route should also be pursued when you post stuff here too, also enjoying the privileges of anonymity? Anyway, I am sure both you and Route leapt to the defence and protection of another of our colourful characters when Toss Parker came to these boards? Oh, that's right.....you didn't! I guess your morality comes in fits and starts! Anyway, life really is too short so that's that..... I apologize to you, as well, on behalf of those of us childish enough to harbour our own differing opinions and not able to reach your soaring levels of condescension.:ok: |
I am quite happy to use rote RT when I feel the listener is English-challenged. However as long as the message gets across, I couldn't care less... just keep it short and don't sound like an @ss or an idiot.
On another note, can we stop with "Q" codes? I certainly am not loyal to the friggin' queen. Altimeter will do just fine. |
Hmm...
QDM = inbound course Same number of syllables so what's the logic in using it in the 21st century? QDR = bearing from or radial Same number of syllables... Methinks it's because the British invented Q codes in 1909 and, just like we still do things because that's how they were done on the (...fill in the blank, DC-4, Convair, TriStar, Classic...) we should still use Q codes because every time a Brit discovers a Yank who doesn't know what QDM is he can then write it in his ERAS! |
On another note, can we stop with "Q" codes? I certainly am not loyal to the friggin' queen. Altimeter will do just fine. Having said that, when I fly in the US I use "altimeter" rather than QNH for pressure settings, statute miles rather than kilometres for visibility and feet rather than metres for RVR. Likewise, I fly metric levels and altitudes when in Chinese or Russian airspace, both countries using Q codes for altimetry. Perhaps after you've finished your letter to ICAO you should write to the Russian and Chinese authorities and tell them to "get with damn' program". STP |
iceman
wraith is naming people in this company but using a pen-name- he should use his real name if he wants to do that! But then again what do you expect on here!
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I am by no means suggesting that we are using "Q" codes because of CX, I am just saying that it is an antiquated system that we should be done with... along with imperial/customary units.
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So you think the world should change to flying in metres BBB? I think human brains seem to like tens and zeros, and 1000' seems to be about right from both a simple and a safety perspective. I'd vote to stick with feet.
As for QNH being replaced with altimeter I'd vote for QNH, and not just because I'm getting long in the tooth! IMHO, QNH sounds the same when spoken by any English speaking nationality but the same cannot be said for altimeter. Altimeter also has more silly bulls, particularly if you pronounce the decimal point; with the added possible confusion that some nationalities refuse to use the correct ICAO for decimal. I agree that long held conventions should be looked at every now and then to see if they can be improved but these two aren't broke so probably don't need fixing. |
Routetuner,
I'm not naming names. In fact your learned colleague was the one who put actual initials so why don't you have a go at him? And why aren't you equally incensed by Toss Parker? Anyway, just ask and most people know who the oddballs are on a fleet, it's not a national secret! Or just ask the CC! Anyway, this is boring now. And as for the original post about Ozzies, whilst you are proof that there are some painful ones...!!!!...most of them are absolutely great! Same can be said of any nationality. If a guy or gal is painful to fly with it is because that's who they are and NOT where they're from. Just my opinion anyway. :ok: |
wraith
Bet you won't put names up again will you!
I think you are the painful one to fly with not me. It's AUSSIES ( OI OI OI) for your spelling lesson. Look for ward to catching up with you on a flight one day! Cheers matey! |
Seriously Route, stop being so precious. And I think you'll find that whilst I haven't actually put up any names, many others have, amongst the most notable being Toss Parker.....and I haven't seen you ranting against those....
I really can't be bothered arguing this anymore, and I'm not worried whether I fly with you or not. The fact that you have to send such subliminal threats says much for YOUR character. And if you would be that unprofessional on the flightdeck as to try to "get someone back" for annoying you on a forum such as this then perhaps it is you that lends credence to the original poster's opinion. Trust me, though, I am not intimidated by you or your outdated Australian male machismo. :ugh: |
wraith
You did name the person!
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ozztranuaght |
Route,
I've searched that master roster and nowhere on it does the name I put appear. Besides the fact that my post was in humour and not malice. But please feel free to continue dragging this ridiculous little spat out. PMS is a biatch!!! :ok: |
wraith
It's good humour now!
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This whole nit-picking mouth-music tendancy has really only developed in the last 10 - 15 years or so IMHO. Pretty much coincident with the rapid market-share growth of Airbus, and LCC's.
Airbus philosophy is to engineer the pilot out of the system as much as possible - and to rigidly over regulate everything they could not take away. The LCC's introduced a new type of pilot to the market - low time, rapidly promoted callow youths. Both these phenomena have combined to create a new generation of pilots who know little about AIRMANSHIP and instead know everything about mouth music and nit picking nonsense. This is what THEY now regard as airmanship. Most of them can rhyme off the FCOM, but can't fly their way out of a paper bag. As for the Aussies....a law unto themselves. I first encountered their anality in the mid 80's on B732's, an aircraft built like a brick ****house and with the manoeuverability of a fighter. A simple joy to fly - and perhaps the last real 'pilots airplane'. Yet they still managed to make flying it into a depressingly tangled mess of BS procedures and verbal diahorrea. Even still - a few of them could at least fly the beast back then. Not much need for that particular skill nowadays so long as you can learn off your P's & Q's well. |
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