taking early-go is illegal, cheating, :yuk:

Dan takes a lot of earlygo.

That's really cute on an anonomous forum EG.
Care to tell us your name? If you can spell it.:yuk:

my name is called LATE-BREAK.

very soon my name will be replaced by "NO MORE EARLY-GO" "NO LATE-BREAK BUT STAY BEHIND".
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

TOIL should be deducted for those taking early go or late break.

Tea Gathering anybody?
 

Disgruntled Hong Kong atcos have been highly critical of their management for years. Management is generally regarded as a bunch of third class politicians although most seem to agree there are 1 or 2 decent blokes on the fourth floor. Now management has invited controllers to an informal tea party for an open discussion about the myriad of problems in ATCX. This invitation has naturally been discussed amongst controllers. The vast majority see it as just another trap - the usual: “we have to be seen to be doing something” after the recent angry exchanges of opinions between management and our dying union – soon without a president. A decade of distrust cannot be changed the way overflowing annual leave became TOIL in the blink of an eye thanks to some very creative administration.

Most controllers are still of the opinion that no matter what they say it will not make any difference whatsoever and woe betide anybody who stands up to management – just ask the ex-president of the union or the controller who recently swapped within the rules! They are both tattooed for life. The “open door policy” management claims to promulgate simply means the door is open for you to leave, but fresh ideas cannot enter! It is all a pantomime and nothing of any significance will ever happen. However, a few others are slightly hopeful claiming that Good and Evil are at war on the fourth floor and that better times may be ahead if the outcome of the situation is ideal.

Controllers and probably the press too would like to know just how it is possible that so many controllers annual leave balance exceeds 180 days if there indeed is no controller shortage?

How come a person named “N/A” still gets rostered so often?

Why are office staff and trainees called upon to work operationally so frequently if there is no manning problem?

Did anybody consider the long-term consequences now the annual leave can no longer be converted to TOIL??

What happens when even more controllers’ leave exceeds maximum? Will they simply see leave disappear into thin air or will management invent a new way of manipulating annual leave which cannot be granted?

How long can this continue before it all blows up completely?


EARLY-GO/TOIL: Why don’t you post a new thread with your drivel about late breaks? If you want to involve management remember that only anonymous complaints will be taken seriously!!!

it is very insulting saying TOIL is posting silly stuff on this forum. there is nothing wrong to voice my view under this thread namely "trouble in hk atc". rrsuckm :yuk: don't play webmaster. TOIL and EARLY-GO are big big big troubles in here. TOIL and EARLY-GO matters corrupt atco atfso behaviour at work. it is shameful you guys leave at 2pm while the roster saying you should leave at 3pm/4pm! why n/a on the roster, simply because we do not need that person for releasing people for early-go!! that answer your silly question.

Let me get this straight....
 

So the acronym for working when you should be able to take leave but you can't due to manning issues is "TOIL" - somebody had to be joking right?

STP

Steve. This is the Hong Kong Civil Service we're talking about.
You know, brown envelopes left over from the second World War, everything in triplicate - I bet we still have carbon paper somewhere, letters that address you as "yourgoodself", office staff chastised for catching the 17:20 bus because they are paid til 17:23, a class structure that Victorian England would have been proud of, wetting of pants by the 4th floor whenever the word "Bureau" is mentioned, penny pinching in the extreme but pound foolish when it comes to most things.

What is laughable is to see their attempt to relate shift-working controllers' rosters and entitlements to the 150 year old Civil Service Regulations. Written clearly for the job of a pen pusher in the British Army in the 1800's, these archaic tomes never envisaged civil servants not working 9 to 5, 5.5 days a week, without anyone needing to cover your postion if you were sick or on leave. (sickness is probably forbidden in there somewhere!)
So we have this ridiculous system of relationship to office workers in Admiralty, who gleefully have their weekends and public holidays off, while frontline supervisors struggle with rosters full of holes. Daily manning sheets littered with "Not manned" in critical poisitions make a mockery of the roster.

There is no such thing as callout or reserve to cover sickness or leave- well there is, but they have no mechanism to pay you for it.
So, as you say, they conveniently have the ironically named TOIL as their secret weapon.
TOIL is like their version of Monopoly money - they can throw it around at a whim without upsetting the taxpayer. Any time they need you to work overtime, or come in on days off for training etc, they say "oh, but we'll give you TOIL". It's their great piggy bank of IOUs that never get paid back because the don't have the staff . And the reason they don't have the staff is they just do not understand why anyone would want to have their leave - don't you want to save it up for the next 30 years and retire early??? Great!!

Disjointed rant over. Can't be bothered any more.

Mad Hatters Tea Party
 

I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date!


Controllers: It would be so nice if something would make sense for a change.

Management: There's only one way to stop a MAD WATCH. I have an excellent idea, LETS CHANGE THE SUBJECT.

Here comes the Union Rep:

Off with his head!!

Would you like a little more tea?
Well, I haven't had any yet, so I can't very well take more.
Ah, you mean you can't very well take less.
Yes. You can always take more than nothing. Its a bit like TOIL.

Now then, are you ready for your sentence?
But there has to be a verdict first.
Sentence first! Verdict afterwards! Off with his head!!

What do you know about this unfortunate affair?
Nothing.
Nothing whatever?
Nothing whatever!
That's very important! Jury, write that down!

Of all the silly nonsense, this is the stupidest tea party I've ever been to in all my life.

Your Majesty, members of the jury, loyal subjects... and the King... the prisoner at the bar stands accused of enticing ADG, into a game of TOIL, thereby and with malice of forethought, molesting, tormenting, and otherwise annoying our beloved...

Never mind all that! Get to the part where ADG loses his temper.
...thereby causing ADG to lose his temper.

Someone's head IS GOING TO ROLL FOR THIS!

Rule 42: All persons higher than the 4th floor must leave the court immediately.
I am not in the Tower, and I'm not leaving.
Sorry. Rule 42, you know.
Now back to work.

This place really is quite mad.


Apologies to Charles Lutwidge Dodgson

TOIL
 

Ask Throw a Dyce and ex Gweillo Airlines "Pilots" about :mad: TOIL.

Oh no, please don't!! :E

On the beach (TOIL-free and staying here)

Curiouser and curiouser
 

The time has come, my little friends, to talk of other things / Of TOIL and rosters and vacation leave, of pak choy and DGs / And why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wigs / Calloo, Callay, come run away / With the pak choy and DGs.

But I don't want to go among mad people.
Oh, you can't help that. Most everyone's mad here.
You may have noticed that I'm not all there myself.

Time for the expats to go! Off with their heads!! 2013 all will be normal again.

In spring, when woods are getting green, I'll try and tell you what I mean
 

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!" :hmm:

It's confirmed. The place has gone completely mad.

Two mentions in dispatches..woohoo.:)
It's interesting to read about EGs of minutes being regarded as theft from the CAD,yet the TOIL police managed to lose 13 DAYS from my balance:D.Then you are put on a punishment roster as punishment for their incompetence on their own stupid system:bored:.
So in practice when you leave they can't be bothered unless you are hundreds in positive.
Atom bomb in the whole TOIL/Leave/Roster system.Are they still publishing 11 page rosters.:confused:

The bad weather this week tests the system :*

So many flights every days now mean the normal roster cant cover the traffic if any delays into the night :\

Will we be asked to work more day 9 and 10? Just when the management tell us they have plenty of staffs and have the leave situation solved. Will all the 1 days of leave off suddenly disappear? People from the office called up to help is no use when the weather is bad. They are not current. :ooh:

What plan next bosses?:confused::confused::confused:

Yes mr dyce, still the big rosters and continuos roster change. I think it will get worse. It seems they expect to callout at short notice. Everyone turn off your phone. :mad:

suzie,
no need for extra colleagues.Staffing is good if no-one take early go.Tower colleagues always take early go ,particular the expat.We hearing two expat resigning and leaving soon.That is good.

But surely that can only be "good" if there are an equal number of fully qualified replacements, otherwise your rosters are going to get even tighter - or am I missing something?

STP

I would also replace resigning with retiring.I can't think of many expats younger than 50 and most are closer to 60,or even beyond.Hey welcome back to the real world.:D
Also probably replacing people with all the ratings,OJTI,100's of years of experience,with a Tower only who controls by numbers.
This is good? :uhoh::hmm:

Xenophobia
 

Seems we have some xenophobic tendencies creeping in here…..WATSUP, are you a member of the Chinese National Front?

Chinese National Front?
 

:mad: off!. Splitters!

We're the National Front of China!
Not to be confused with the Popular Peoples Front of China.
Or the People's Popular Front of....

Oh, forget it.

Last one out, turn the lights off.

bloody old, over 60's expat controllers. :E

In summer, when the days are long,
CAD, perhaps you'll understand the song:

P.S. Strewth, there's no truth either in the rumour that Hong Kong Airlines is the secret buyer of A380's, it's Gweilo Airlines, of course, that's the true buyer. But keep it under your hat mate or that other HK Airline (the one with the thing that looks like a Gweilo on the tail) will get jealous. :{

7 : 1
 

People keep saying that 7 against 1 is an act of cowardice – so what? Getting the President of the Association to squeal like a mouse in front of 7 Managers followed by making him put in writing there are no staffing issues at all - actually there is a surplus of controllers in HK……………............and finally seeing him resign as President of the Association for ‘family reasons’ made it all worthwhile. This clearly illustrates how Management intends to deal with anybody who tries to be too clever. Management realizes he received plenty of help from so-called ‘experts’ of the Association who helped him write to Management and these persons will feel the full force of our sledgehammer soon. Thanks to our cronies we are in the process of identifying them. Once identified they too will be dealt with. We wish to ‘educate’ these sorry individuals.


Most controllers still remember that HKATCA had an expat as President in the not too distant past. He had many clever ideas about TOIL, leave and staffing. He also told Management how to do its job. For this he paid the ultimate price: no new contract! He was begging for a new contract and of course he was continuously given hope that he would get an extension – only to be disappointed on the very last day – such a shame! Seeing his hope turn to despair – ah, sweet memories. He simply broke down in tears and could not handle it - f@ggot!

Now the Association has no President at all and Management warns anybody wanting this job to think very carefully. Of course, Management will still allow the Association to exist in order to show the world what an excellent place our atc is, but we must make sure the new President has the correct attitude and works in the spirit of Management.


To further demonstrate the Management’s Open Culture Policy colleagues can rest assured that we are always interested in free exchange of views between controllers and Management. Our door is always open. Please come in!

there are very few unhappy controllers here, the very few are just those in this forum. most of the controllers are in general happy to the management. they know the management has been trying hard to improve the working environment. thanks to everyone, if not all, at 3/4 floors of their hard work.
:ok:

Last but not least, no more early-go please, late break corrupts controllers' mindset. it is a corruption. it is an offense to csr. be a good civil servant!

hk aid tea sea aids has no hope!
 

dying union?! died long time ago.
the last few presidents suck.
no one pay membership fee nowadays.
they still call themselves union. they were called "social club" years ago. it is now worse than that. no surprise, the whole cra:mad:p is run by a bunch of brush shoe boys and girls.
the last president is hiding himself as an X-cun, useless small bast:mad:ard as president. carry a title as president trying to shine himself in front of satco (the club should be renamed as hk.student.atca) and all his peers in his little kingdom in fragrant harbour air catdead. eat banana! :yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

no hope.

EARLY-GO (really a Level 4 ???)
 

Seriously, do you think we should have an effective Union or not?
I guess if you are happy to be treated the way we have been lately then there's no point reading further.

If, on the other hand, you consider having a say in your future is worthwhile, what have you done to improve it, given that you don't hold the previous Executive in high regard?
Why not pay your fees and have a say in the way things are run. Perhaps even run for Office?

Or are you one of these people who like to bring up lots of problems but has no solutions?

The real topic
 

Vectored today into 25R with 20' offset that would SIMPLY NOT (4500') provide a real intercept by River. Local accent. Extreme VFR.... 250kts from 200+ miles away. Good luck.

union goes to the west
 

why should i pay to make such meaningful protest? i never pay money to this club. they are even worser than a club. seeing how these boys/girls polish the senior officers' shoes are quite entertaining.

i might join the union if they dare to present a paper to management on BAN THE EARLY GO aka LATE BREAK. i pay my last decades membership fees!! :*

EG,
Your posts are getting funnier by the day.
HKATCA isn't a union,it's an association that is part of IFATCA.I never could see how they had any bargaining powers the way for example Prospect has with Nats.
Prospect is about 1000 times more powerful than HKATCA,and is now regarded in Nats as a lame duck.
So you are free to do as your told by management under the CSRs,and that your lot.The only time HKATCA could be useful,is that if you manage to weld some planes together,and judging by your posts I really hope you are not operational,then they might get a better legal team than legal aid would allow.Think about it,we all make c:mad:kups now and again.:hmm:

Can someone explain to me why we are now receiving regular delays into HKG and not one single notam has been generated to plan for ATC holding.

I spend most of the journey travelling through china at altitudes 15000' below optimum, to then receive an instruction to reduce speed and hold. All my contingency fuel has evaporated, there is no weather within 50nm of the airport!

They want to build a third runway in this place and they cant even deal with two at the moment and it still hasn't reached it's capacity!

Something has gotta give and its not the bull@#$t politics within the nursery!

So I guess u missed the article in the SCMP KABOY saying that they are already looking into a 4th runway.....

Yep, also had holding as well recently, as well as speed reductions as well as the "left 180, then turn right 360". So it looks like more extra fuel on top of the extra recommended (plus a little bit extra of course.. ;) )

b.

First time in a big plane?

So what, it's not like you're going to run out of gas. Very simple: Go with the flow and either divert or declare an emergency, either way you land. Notice how neither of those things happens very often?

Save your energy for the real problems and emergencies.

Also, have you figured out yet that you usually get paid more if you fly more? Once that starts bothering your company, then they will deal with the causes. You're just the driver, just another little employee.

Third runway at Hong Kong International Airport ‘going to be needed’ - Cathay Pacific - FlyerTalk Forums

happy reading
it's all there
13 pages so far

"Dan takes a lot of earlygo."

For the safety of the flying public, let him go early as often as he likes.

In that case, the tower will become unmanned between 1:30pm and 3pm.

Xenophobia
 

watsup/TOIL/EARLY-GO (one single person logging on with 3 different user names), are you for real? Declaring holy war against Tower controllers who “always take EGs” - mainly gweilos according to your manifesto. In fact, they are the real cause of all problems in HK atc – a place where almost everybody is happy all the time, if you are to be believed!

Did your sweetheart run off with some gweilo in the past and left you feeling angry, hurt & vindictive?

Xeno..
How cum you so smart?
You smart enough to work on 4 th. floor, or maybe already there???
How cum you know about my girlfriend who run away with gweilo and very happy-la living overseas. Why she do this to me ??? wHY NOT SHE LIKE LIVING IN 440 SQ. APARTMENT,EAT rice everyday,do the kary-o.k.,breathe lovely air,have 4 mobile phones.
I thought she velly happy.Me now loser, like most of my colleagues.

Who is the them president of hkatca :confused:
I want a refund on my last 15 years of membership fees, I need that money for a more meaningful thing.

The Association is not about one person doing your dirty work for you.
Get off your ass and have some input if you want things to happen.