SO Bypass Pay Case
 

On the eve of our long awaited chance to have the SO bypass case heard, I'd like to thank the two plaintiff SOs for the significant time and effort they have both put in over the past 6-12 months.

Regardless of the outcome, I know I speak for all my colleagues when I say I really appreciate you both sacrificing your days off to finally have this case brought before the tribunal.

lmh

Hope enough So's ( and any others crew interested ) pitch up tomo to support - and send a message.

Unfortunately I am afraid as usual we will find more crew in bed, bars or on golf courses than supporting these guys......it's the Cathay Way....

Hopefully there is more than just S/Os that turn up to show support. If this case goes good, then there are others in other ranks that will benefit.

http://z.hubpages.com/u/34615_f520.jpg

Good luck, we are all counting on you!

:ok::ok::ok:

see you tomorrow

Sad it's the lowest rank that has to do the standing up at Cx.

day 2
 

the hearing continues on tuesday 06/09/2009 at 2:30 p.m.

stop by and show your support!

freightdog188 did you go today?

I'm out of town so can't make it.... any chance of an update on what happened today?

Not a lot, really. no surprise witnesses, no shouting, nobody yelled "...you can't handle the truth!", and the judge didn't have to bang on his gavel for "ORDER! ORDER!!" ;)

There's nothing that I would want to discuss outside of the courtroom and on a public forum at this time, but you certainly didn't miss anything overly exciting.

you can also use this link to look up the time and court room for wednesday, under 'labour tribunal' :ok: ;

Court Lists

Nobody won. Awaiting Judgement.

Case went as follows.

Company defense based on denial and confusion with the following a summary of their main points :

1. The fact that we did not complain in the past therefore we should'nt complain now. ( I am not joking - the company man actually said this)
2. That nobody in management is aware of any contract violations. ( Yes every single management witness answered about 90 % of their questions with: " I don't know/ am not aware" etc etc)
3. That after three days of arguments the company is unable to defend the case since they still don't understand what it is we are upset about/claim.
4. That things are more complicated than we think and therefore it cannot be explained to us or the Judge/court.

Up to the judge to now decide whether random company policies and interpretations that continually change take precedence over our contract.

Any idea on when the judgement will be handed down?
(please, no management like responses!.....I don't know, i am not aware etc)

Last day of the case today..... 1430 at the Labour Tribunal, 36 Gascoigne Road, Kowloon

Now that 9 Airbus JFO courses have been cancelled for August, and that by October there will be only 3 SOs left on BBP, the judgement due on the 3rd July is pretty vital for the financial well-being of many SOs.

Well done Scott, Herman and John Findlay, regardless of the outcome.

'RM

Does anyone know what the purpose of the hearing today was? Did they indicate if there could be an earlier ruling, or if it would be on 3 July? Thanks.

box

Last hearing the judge went through the submissions filed by Scott and CX.
On the 3rd July, Judge will give out a written verdict.
If Scott wins, they'll be another hearing to decide the colour of the money!

Today's the 3rd, what's the word?

We won!

BBP from 18 months.
F/O conditions from 18 months.

Does anyone know if there is going to be back pay, and can someone else please confirm this? Have been waiting a LONG time to hear this news!!

box

It's confirmed. Won 4 out of the 5 points.

It's about time someone gives them a taste of their own medicine.

There sure will be back pay. This was the whole reason for the court case. To get money owing for the difference in S/O and F/O pay. Don't forget the additional stuff that goes with it; housing, holidays, and a whole lot of cash that should have been paid from 18 month onwards.

It's going to be a 'sad Tony' Friday! ;) Well done boys! :ok:

Well done boys! In addition, it will be an even sadder Tony if the 49ers win their Hong Kong court case in October! 'Devastated Tony', 'Morose Tony'... the possibilities are endless!

The earliest if have ever seen the Friday Telex on Intra CX. Not a word about the court case to the rest of the staff.

Can this mean the end of N.R. knighthood in the Swire Empire as his mission was to get rid of B.B.P.?

The monster they created came back to haunt them.

Well done to the S/O’s involved and my fellow AOA members for the support given.

I believe the PO did say that Freighter extenders will be included, so we got that one aswell!! The only contention that did not sit well with the PO is that SO's should be automatically looked at for up-grade after 18 months, no biggie to lose that one anyway!!!
Come on Sad Tony, how will you spin this one!!!!

Well done.

A big thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Tony will mention that he couldn't put down any comments about the case in the weekly update because of time frame commitments for intraCX. Only one word for that. Sounds like Full and smells funny.

AOA Update
 

Nothing to see here!

70% membership and climbing. Time for the other 30% to give the AOA (another) go.:ok:

12wheeler, i admire your enthusiasm but why post internal AOA emails here??? The other 30% just need to read these things and not bother joining!! Let them live in the dark and the rumour mill!!

I think the other 30% should know "their 70% counterpart" are doing all the fight for them. Anyway, your point taken. I will delete the message!

Congrats to all involved especially the S/O's who had the backbone to see this through. I find it absolutely pathetic that it falls on our most junior crew to take on the company. To all those extendees, Oasis DEC's and guys doing "early" (read - out of seniority) freighter commands, who still want to be your best buddy and have a beer at the other end I say no way. You can bend over and cut deals with the company, but do it on your own buddy.

How to spin bad news as good news
 

Here's a little snippet from the DFO's update today:

That sounds like good news to the SOs. How is it suddenly "good news" the NR? Isn't that one of the specific things the claimants went to court for?

Let's keep our head cool and get ready for the next lawsuit!

DEC were clearly a breach of contract; another court case for the AOA to pursue.

Fact is, the only way to deal with the company is through the courts. This case is the proof we need to keep going in this direction.

Congrats to all and the AOA.

Masta of Disasta

I think your point should be directed at the company not our fellow pilots and in many cases fellow AOA members. The company created this mess, not the people you are venting your anger at. We are trying to repair the damage done by the company’s very successful divide and conquer tactics of the past so please for all our sakes stop playing into their hands now.

PS: It hasn’t gone unnoticed that this is your first post as a new member. I wonder why?

During the past two years certain individuals made a concise decision to shaft their fellow colleagues, and to hide behind somebody else (the company) and to try to blame them is the oldest trick in the book. The damage they have wholeheartedley taken part in cannot be easily undone. They have taken full advantage of a bad situation and now try to feign ignorance.Most of these individuals are not members of the Union and prefer to belong to the "every man for himself" brigade. So be it but don't expect me to give you the rest of the cake.If you decide to make pleasent chit chat or meet up for a beer after then the joke really is on you.

Thats 2 posts

Can someone take the time and give me a little background on the case? Does this ruling affect new joiners? I heard COS 08' does not have a bypass pay provisions for SO's, is this true? Thanks.

Sioux

Well done boys! :ok:

Big thanks to S and H and the AOA!

Unfortunately, the court has become the only 'negotiating' ground with management. Well if that's how they want it...

F/Os, you're up!

Interesting reading
 

Those who can....

Log into HKAOA and download the ruling pdf. scan to page 13....

Look at columns 9 and 10.

There you will find the total number of people triggering BPP and the total number of SO/s who were receiving BPP. I think you will agree the two numbers are very disparate.

For the FO case you can add the columns named "Pax Capt over 55" and "Frtr Capt over 55" - and this is the number of triggers for FO's at those dates on the sheet. If you are within this band during any of those dates then you should have been receiving BPP for extended captains.

IFP

Ex C. Your are, unfortunately, quite right. The company only seems to listen to sense when it is delt out by the courts. Whether it is with pilots or cabin crew, it is still the same. A large number of SO's and FO's will be happy for this ruling.

Cathay just need to get over it and get on with it and stop shirking their contractual obligations. Way more than my 4 months SLS money has gone into this court case alone. My taking SLS is supposed to help the company as a whole - not to fund them defending their mismanagement.

I did have a wry smile on my face when the DFO mentioned the single SO. Does this mean that every SO or FO will have to make a case individually? I wonder. If the company forces this issue, then mega (bad) publicity will be the only way to solve this one I suspect. I would encourage each and every eligible SO and FO to jump on the band wagon. To do otherwise will only cost you money and the numbers will give impetus to the case as a whole.

It's funny how the last company update states that it was a complex issue since the ruling is 24 pages long.

How many ruling has he seen that are shorter than that! I actually thought "24 pages" meant the opposite. 24 pages is quite short I would say! The ruling is straight forward and easy to read. They were told they were wrong and acted against our contract, they knew about it but yet they are still trying to hide somewhere. An apology, rather than childish excuses, would be more appropriate at this point.

It's a great satisfaction to win and have justice done. But it exposes what kind of management we are working for. Sad.

Someone mentioned that DEC's are in breach of our contract and that should make a nice court case too - well I like that idea. The more the better.

Secondly - not to stir the pot here - but can the sudden joining of LEP's have something to do with the SO and coming FO bypass cases - are they jumping on the train now before it leaves the station only because they see a possible gain for themselves..... ???

Lastly - Interesting thing in the update yesterday - LEP 's now get education assistance - wonder why the company would suddenly decide to give something? Feeling pressure?