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"Gleemed".... there's obviously a B scale English test too..........:rolleyes:
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Apple tree yard
"...illiterate, juvenile and obnoxious lot that populate many of the right seats in this airline..." "I sometimes am left in awed amazement at the sheer level of dysfunction inherent in many of my colleagues. Couldn't care less what they think...as I have found most of them are incapable of any reasoned thought anyway...." Amazing, May I suggest you go up to the 3rd floor and book yourself onto the next available CRM course because boy, you need it!!!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh: |
....yawn....:zzz:
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Now come on guys, stop stirring up poor old Apple Tree. I mean, can't you see from his post that this man is a cut above the rest, a superior being!
I marvel at how intelligent he must be, sitting there overseeing the illiterate, juvenile, bumbling F/O, it must be horrible for him. Apple never makes a mistake, you should see him in the sim, what an ace! Apple is great to fly with too, he's so mature, he knows everything and he's always right, even when he's wrong! F/O's have a very easy flight with Apple Tree, he never needs any help from anyone, he's just so clever. What you F/O's need to understand is that Apple was recruited when CX recruited real men, not like these days! You see, everyone employed after Apple was an idiot, he was CX's last great find, a sort of aviation messiah. In fact, the real reason CX want RA65 is because they can't stand the thought of losing Super Capt Apple. So when you think about writing something nasty about this modern day superhero, think again. He's probably been out all night saving the world as only he can. Keep up the good work Super Capt Apple Tree, we all sleep well at night in the knowledge that you are out there. |
rtforu, classic!!!!!
404 titan makes a good point. All we want is CX to stick to the contract we already have. Why is there any need to negotiate or vote on bypass pay? They can extend every pilot to 65 now - nothing is stopping them! |
acms and retread
..when the dust settles on this '65 thing' you guys will see just how 'easy' it is to actually stand up to cx without industrial action.They'll impose what they want and you two snivelling pukes will cop it anyway to save your 'ever reducing' jobs and i'll have to listen to your crap in the cockpit. ad nauseum. All about how those nasty A scale guys refused to get fired and you wound up on B scale as as result.
You really don't know who you're dealing with do you?...fact is they'll squash anybody to get what they want and all the verbal waffling is just a waste of breath..the AOA is damage control only. The A scale have been through more,risked more,lost more and stood up for more than you guys will ever know...why? because you weren't here to see it.JUST HOW MUCH EXACTLY IN DOLLAR TERMS DID YOU FORK OUT TO SUPPORT 49 GUYS WHO WERE EXECUTED?...nil I'll bet..just some gutless anonymous limp wristed punches at your work mates. Your day will come...no pay rises,rising costs,bypassed for commands,basings all given away to cheap crews,longer hours with less crews,84 hrs magically up to 88,lesser overtime rates,..it's all happened before and WILL CONTINUE. Stand up NOW..and don't let ST become another MG..he represents US..tell HIM what we want not the company dictate it. A scale PAY rates for everyone...end of story. |
rtforu,
Funniest post I have read for a while:D:D:D:D |
It's hardly surprising that the 'professional' status associated with pilots is being eroded when one reads some of the immature comments made here for all to see. How embarrassing to see the 'chav' mentality displayed by so many of my colleagues!
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:zzz:....which is the usual reaction I have when flying with the recent generation of FO's. Most of you believe you are smarter than the majority of us 'old guys'. Perhaps, through the superior application of your superior intellect you can explain why you are working under the lowest pay and the worst conditions of most of the western worlds major airlines? The difference between you and I is that I joined CX knowing my value, as was reflected in the conditions and pay prevalent at the time. You of course joined knowing your value also.... Of course, we can continue to debate this on a 'friendly' level for the next 10 years....until I reach 65...! :E
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Apple Tree Yard
Wow. You really are a piece of work.
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A Cathay Pacific spokeswoman said the airline has been actively engaging the union and members of the crew community to discuss subjects of common interest, including retirement age. "All staff were fully informed of the employment conditions, including the retirement age, when they accepted the company's employment," she said. Seems like the company is quite eager to refer to the contractual employment conditions when dealing with cabin crew... So why are we discussing this with the company exactly? |
...you may not like the tone...but the sentiment is based on years of exposure to the very type of individual that I describe. As for what you or others think of me....I couldn't care less....:E
ps. the problems I describe are thankfully not as prevelant flying from the LHR base. More the case when it is an antipodean or canuck.... |
options for extension beyond RA 55
A point of thought I have noticed not being mentioned much is the location of extendee's within our basing network.
Those of us nearing 55 are starting to realise they can take a base now, after all those years in HKG. I firmly believe they feel they have the right to remain on the base post 55 if the NRA debarcle is sorted out prior to their retirement. Well that sucks! How fair is it to expect that our most senior crew can now have their cake and eat it too. Any change/adjustment to our COS is going to hurt some and help others, obviously it will hurt those who are not left seat and not based to name a few..... The help for the others will come in the form as previously mentioned. In the form of another possible 10 years at the stick to top up any expected capital required for the quality of life post CX they had dreamed of once their pay was frozen and the pay cuts were made. ( i understand that the share offer was not enough for these folks, as nothing seems to be enough for them these days anyway). If our careers are to be extended with this airline without 100% support then that just shows that we can not all be pleased (whats good for the goose, is not always good for the gander) I would like to see that any pilot flying beyond 55 should be repat'ed back to HKG so that at least the rest of us can enjoy the concept of life out of HKG. :{ cheers L.E.D |
Apple Tree Yard
The way you are carrying on I get the impression you could be a management mole. You seem to be doing their work for them after all, i.e. driving huge wedges in the pilot body with your antipodean and canuck comments. I’m one of the former and haven’t heard anyone carry on as you claim. We are well aware of what is in our contract and all we want is if the company extend you or any other pilot past 55 we get paid what our contract says we should get paid. Nothing more nothing less. To denigrate us the way you have doesn’t do your cause any good what so ever. I suggest you please think about that before you post here again. |
As usual, another misunderstood post.....
Titan.
Fistly I can only say you are roughly 6500nm from guessing where i come from. I am no where near 55 nor do I want to be as that would mean I would have missed seeing the kids grow up and watch their young dad become an even more synical bastard than he is now! My DOJ puts me just ahead of the middle of the pack and the reality of a command basing in OZ is rapidly deminishing owing to the fact that CX are only dribbling out the vacancies, unlike the freighter spots they seem to have just filled for Man744F. If another STC tells me he needs to get back to a base before the company goes onshore so he can stay there until 65, i will puke! Try this on for size... I have had the chance to grace myself with the presence of some very senior drivers lately that have confessed to asking PW for another temp base or perm base on the 744F in syd, on B Scale! The comments were that they don't need A scale anymore, they have enough money, all they want now is to get home without having to scrounge for spare jumpseats on the numerous overloaded flights home. Does it not bother you or anyone else that we are yet again being stabbed in the back by the same guys we thank for the sector. A growing numer of these guys are getting hungrier for the chance to take a base just before the system locks them out so they can hopefully sit out their last years on that base. When do you forsee the rest of us getting one then hey. |
To denigrate us the way you have doesn’t do your cause any good what so ever.
Maybe you should be aiming this statement at a few of your B scale mates who post anti A Scale stuff all the time. But what you say about RA 65 and your contract is correct. I would like to continue my career past 55 but in doing so the company must honour your contract with by-pass pay. We should all unite against the company for this to happen and stop this senseless A vs B scale thing. As things go now we are going to lose this battle and we will still be here on pprune blaming each other. |
Yes my point is not to bash any employee group.
If we are to move forward on this matter without the knowledge of a better pay deal we are left like this, constantly fighting about the what if's and maybe's! If an A scale pilot is to be extended then extend them on their current conditions, likewise if the B &F scales are to be forced to accept a new retirement age then there should be full compensation for the change to career. I would not expect any pilot from CX to have to accept a crappier deal just because of a critical mass of votes on this whenever it comes around. For the A scale'ers it must be tough praying for a pay rise when some of your bretheren are happy to keep going beyond NRA55 on less than what they were paid before. Hey call me a sceptic, but this ****e has been ops normal for so long now it seems to be the norm, lets face it we are all lining our nests and don't care if some guy lays his/her head on block for their own cause. All we do is take the piss out of them once they crash and burn in their new ventures or we constanly harp on the idea that there is nothing else out there as good as this? I have heard the idea of a career change in the past, but if all we do is run away from our problems they will never get fixed:ugh: |
Apple tree yard,
You have made my mind up, I will now join the AOA and vote NO for RA65 so we can get people like yourself out of here. Your attitude stinks....... Now run along and tell yourself how good you are............ |
Why is it that we accept direct entry commands (ASL,Dragonair and shortly Oasis) with barely a whimper yet the possibility of our current colleagues extending their contracts creates such bitterness?
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leading_edge_device
Where did this come from? My post was directed at ATY not you. For the record I agree with you regarding bases. It was an underhanded thing the company did to simply fill the bases and get those “pesky A scalers” (company’s term) out of HK. My personal opinion is that the company should either offer 65 to everyone or no one at all. In saying that it shouldn’t in any way compromise my contractual rights to bypass pay. Of course the company doesn’t want that hence the negotiations taking place with the AOA as we speak. Make no mistake, these negotiations aren’t about RA65 but about bypass pay. We can’t stop RA65 being offered but we can make the company pay for it by making them honour our contract if we all “A & B scales” stick together. PanZa-Lead Maybe you should be aiming this statement at a few of your B scale mates who post anti A Scale stuff all the time. This bickering makes me sick. I couldn't care less if you are "A" or "B" scale, or a LHS or RHS driver, (I'm the second in both cases). |
I too strongly agree that bypass pay must be paid in the event of RA65, BUT we have to remember that it only gets paid to those assessed as suitable. There are rumors that S/Os assessments are being delayed til near the actual upgrade, so what prevents the company from doing the same with command bypass pay? We deserve bypass pay since it's in our contract, but we also need to address the issue of the assessment.
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Holy smokes, and I thought I was the only Bitter and twisted bloke in here.
A few of us should take a LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR. I just did, yuk. |
This thread should be mandatory reading, for every new student at the local "Aviation College."
So they have a chance to....get out, before it is to late. I wonder if other, so called professionals, have forums like this? Anonymity and the Internet have really hurt us, I doubt anyone would talk like this, face to face. |
Bobrun
They can't do it to Command bypass pay unless they cat D you. Read your CoS. |
basings
sooooo.... you feel that 20 years seniority has no value when applying for a base? and that employing all new defo's directly onto a base in no way inconveniences our current f/o's in hkg who would like to be in YVR or SYD?
grow a head! basings vacancies should ALL be seniority derived NOT save cx a buck driven. And when you middle-of-the-road crew grow up just a little more you'll see there will be NO MORE bases at all for you. Just as you slag off senior guys for wanting to go home after 20 years choking on smog in HKG ...so too will you be unable to due to direct entry hires today. After 2008 there will be no more base transfers....unless you take a massive pay cut.:hmm: |
question
Just how is getting rid of A scales going to improve the lot of B scalers?
You honestly think that the money cx saves from that exercise will be disbursed amoungst the remaining crew? bwahahahahahahahahahhahahah....... |
Loodeloop
CX can do whatever they f*ckin' well feel like..... read your CX history:*
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CX can do whatever they f*ckin' well feel like..... read your CX history Times, they are a changin'... |
School yard bully
I can understand A scalers being afraid of the big CX schoolyard bully. But for those of you with kids old enough, what advice do you give them? Kowtow as much as possible, run, hide? Or do you tell them to stand up to the bully -sensibly and possibly with help!?
WHen is enough, enough? I was quite surprised with their actions in 2001 in firing 49 people. Went to show that this 21st century airline is being run by 19th century coal mine managers. The cowardly Star chamber is another symptom of a gutless unaccountable bully syndrome - people with real character would identify themselves to candidates that have upgrades denied and would state why - real men! The incestuous self congratulating crowd of Arkansas idiots we have upstairs are busy congratulating themselves on how they got the manning just right -almost nooooo overtime! So boys and girls, what do we do? Stand up to the bully and see if times have changed? Kow tow and accept whatever happens, like back door DECs, reduced BPP? If my child couldn't succeed with the bully I would move him/her to a new school - same goes here. CX might still be better than most airlines but I will not remain at an airline where I have to roll over and expose my belly like some submissive dog! |
Who are we fighting?
After reading some of the replies both from A scale captains and others, I am both embarrassed and ashamed to think they are the colleagues I fly with every day.
In my former life as a Captain in the RAAF it was expected you would show leadership in the way you fly, foster the development of your cockpit colleagues, and the way you conduct yourself generally. Yet I see very little of these traits generally in CPA. To those former A scalers still bemoaning their loss of a golden deal and counting the "apparent" cost to them, get over it, you had the chance to vote with your feet when it was implemented. That you didn't indicates you accept it still represents a good deal and probably better than you could get elsewhere. Remember you are still being paid more to do the same job than a B scaler. And be honest, you would have still joined if you had initially been offered B scale rates. As for my fellow B scalers why bemoan someone else getting a reasonable deal? I don't, as long as it isn't at the direct cost of other pilots including me. If I already had airline command time then I could vote with my feet, however being a "mature joiner" if I want to see command before 55 then I have to stay with this outfit. I don't know how anyone can fault the logic of NC in the age 65 issue. One pilot body, one pay scale, one set of COS!! Stop the infighting and focus our energies at improving everyones lot. Accept that new-joiners will accept a lower package as a foot in the door, but established pilots accepting a lower package post-55 (housing and pay), or freighter command are reducing the bargaining power of EVERYONE. |
worm says -
In my former life as a Captain in the RAAF it was expected you would show leadership in the way you fly, foster the development of your cockpit colleagues, and the way you conduct yourself generally. Yet I see very little of these traits generally in CPA |
missing blade,
he said air force, not navy or army;-) |
Worm. Is your post a wind-up???
You can't be serious? So you were a Captain in the RAAF? Did you mention that during your interview with CX? I'm sure it would have impressed them. You may not have noticed, but at least half of the senior pilots you bemoan are accomplished ex-military pilots (heck, some have even shot down enemy fighters..and one Herc!). I can only guess that you didn't notice because we don't use it as an introduction! But the fact you think it gives you license to preach that A Scalers are greedy and should "get over things" is a bit rich! Especially as you go on to say that we should all stick together. A tiny bit of a contradiction...don't you think? Quite frankly, although we may not have flown together, I think my colleagues and I "conduct" ourselves quite professionally..thank you very much! Upgrades are not just given away here? Most people would say they are proud to have "earned" their stripes, and are maybe just a tiny bit resentful about being judged by junior pilots (ex-military or not) that are still in need of...what were your words, "fostering and developing". BTW, and quite "honestly", I would not have joined on B scale. So you get over that! As we said when I was in the Air Force, get some "time-in" before you make judgments or comment. |
heck, some have even shot down enemy fighters..and one Herc! |
So I take it that "Captain" in the RAAF means 'jumped up little tosspot'........?:ugh:
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Raven 11, well done mate, the only error you are doing is in assuming that you are being criticized by junior crew only...no mate there are a lot of B scale captains that are equally put off by this whole debacle.
The fact that you say that you would not have joined on B scales is probably correct, but the fact of the matter is that quite a few guys are more than happy to extend on B scales. They have even chosen to train within 2 weeks of retirement,after being a line pilot for 20 years and telling us all on how he cannot wait to leave this Sh1t company and on how he is counting rosters. I'm sorry mate but a lot of "Senior Pilots" are making your argument loose impact |
Frogman.
Valid point taken. I guess we all want ( and deserve) to be respected by our colleagues. What gets up my nose is someone insulting individuals on A scale, or Cathay's flight operations, as "worm" does in his post. Full disclosure, I'm an A scale pilot, and a product of the Cathay system. I've flown both military and civil aviation prior to Cathay, and I can honestly say that Cathay flightcrew and flight operations are second to none! When someone gets his stripes at Cathay (two, three, or four bars) he deserves to be congratulated, not angrily diminished, as you so frequently see here. Is that too much to ask? Yes there are pay and contract issues that need to be resolved. Let's hope the AOA is up to the task of ensuring that we are "all" looked after fairly. |
Just remember that "Respect" can only be earned not demanded. There are a lot of guys out there that say one thing and then do another.
There are those that on one hand expect the AOA to sort out all of their issues while they go and join the training camp and most probably they are not even part of the AOA, because it costs too much!. How many Ascalers are actually in the AOA? How about the A scaler that is pi..ed off that the AOA has blocked RA65 but he is more than happy to extend on Bscales with limited housing and no schooling...talk about the cart being pulled in both directions. The more guys that extend on these terms the less chance the rest of you have of ever going to 65 on Ascales!!! Finally you also have the guys that are pissed off about the deal but are working on G days helping the company out at the expense of the rest of the pilot body. I'm sorry to say but the GREED of hand full of senior pilots is going to bring the whole deal down to Bscales |
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