Complete Shutdown?
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Reading and believing in the lines of a contract in the face of a potential global pandemic is foolishly blind.
How long do you think CX can operate before they have to make
painful decisions?
This whole outbreak will take months to heal the economic and financial mess even if sars can me isolated at this moment.
This whole SARS issue is just the beggining of a very real and
frightening outbreak.
It is an absolute tragedy for the whole Asian region.
Potentially a tragedy on an International scale.
The simple fact is...everyday more people are being infected and more people are dying.
How long do you think CX can operate before they have to make
painful decisions?
This whole outbreak will take months to heal the economic and financial mess even if sars can me isolated at this moment.
This whole SARS issue is just the beggining of a very real and
frightening outbreak.
It is an absolute tragedy for the whole Asian region.
Potentially a tragedy on an International scale.
The simple fact is...everyday more people are being infected and more people are dying.
Chuck
Not only last night was I having this discussion with the local medics.
The death rate is "only" 4% - not dissimilar to influenza. Why the hype? Thousands more people are dying of many other equally or more infectious diseases every day, and where is the rush?
Its also not as if entire planeloads of people are getting ill from the recirc air either. All it means is that the host can take it to another corner of the planet, where it is still not that deadly. Aircraft take all sorts of diseases from one corner of theplanet to another. There would scarcely be one amongst us who have not caught a mild influenza or cold from aircraft travel. Yet this virus is not infecting people by the plane load.
P.S. How you doing? - you've been lying low!
The death rate is "only" 4% - not dissimilar to influenza. Why the hype? Thousands more people are dying of many other equally or more infectious diseases every day, and where is the rush?
Its also not as if entire planeloads of people are getting ill from the recirc air either. All it means is that the host can take it to another corner of the planet, where it is still not that deadly. Aircraft take all sorts of diseases from one corner of theplanet to another. There would scarcely be one amongst us who have not caught a mild influenza or cold from aircraft travel. Yet this virus is not infecting people by the plane load.
P.S. How you doing? - you've been lying low!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hong Kong
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This company will weather the storm. Some very difficult and painful decisions will have to be taken to stop the haemorrhageing of our excellent reserves of cash. Seniority in unpaid leave? I doubt that will be a consideration. I imagine the company will require all, that is everybody, to take either 1 week a month unpaid leave or a 25% pay cut. It is interesting and uncommented on by the pit bulls that other airlines around the globe are taking this opportunity to lay off lots more of our colleagues. Yet our company, once again in time of adversity, states that there are NO PLANS TO LAY OFF STAFF and that all contingency planning is designed to 1) Save the Company and 2) Save all our jobs. It seems to me that there is a serious rift between the AOA rank and file and the AOA leadership. One wants to help the company, the other is again only interested in themselves - which is which lol. If it does unfortunately come to redundancies then I would think what you are flying now will be a factor. Good luck to all - stay healthy.
Join Date: May 2002
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Shorts - You spend WAAY too much time on the internet (lol, rotflmao and other inane acronyms). I think we all recognize that this is very serious. There is an issue here on contractual obligations: As CX well knows, a contract is binding in law, and my contract states, in essence, "last in, first out." I might be prepared to allow my elected representatives negotiate around this, if certain "other" issues could be addressed. This really has come at a bad time for the lads on the 3rd and 10th floors, hasn't it? First the two contra-judgments, then this..?
One issue really bothers me here: is there a real desire on CX's part to offer stable careers, or a reluctance to part with 6 month's salary if one is made (temporarily) redundant? As our MD and DFO have already stated, this crisis will not be used to make "opportunistic raids" on our COS, so I hope for everyone’s sake that this clause still stands. This might just be the force majeur issue we could ride to end the impasse between the AOA and CX, its workgroups and our (inadequate) personnel department.
When all of this is over, I predict big changes on the horizon, not least of which a possible early move for a newly-appointed quick-fingered gunslinger on the 10th floor..? How is the inopportune "internal memo" leak being viewed up there? I couldn't imagine anyone in Swires being terribly happy with Billions being wiped off the value of the company for lack of a little "diplomacy".
One issue really bothers me here: is there a real desire on CX's part to offer stable careers, or a reluctance to part with 6 month's salary if one is made (temporarily) redundant? As our MD and DFO have already stated, this crisis will not be used to make "opportunistic raids" on our COS, so I hope for everyone’s sake that this clause still stands. This might just be the force majeur issue we could ride to end the impasse between the AOA and CX, its workgroups and our (inadequate) personnel department.
When all of this is over, I predict big changes on the horizon, not least of which a possible early move for a newly-appointed quick-fingered gunslinger on the 10th floor..? How is the inopportune "internal memo" leak being viewed up there? I couldn't imagine anyone in Swires being terribly happy with Billions being wiped off the value of the company for lack of a little "diplomacy".
Join Date: May 2002
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Of course it might be a case of the knickers calling the bloomers black CU. Mein Gott, there are portions of your post with which I agree, must be a first for me. I hope and pray that all sensibly minded people do use this major tragedy as a force for conciliation between t'management and the rank and file. I don't think the issues which recently went against the company are over with, appeals etc to come. I understand a degree of cynicism on the part of some/many of our colleagues and indeed from some in management. But I hope the modest, more moderate majority of us prevail and we do get things back together as best we can. GL. By the way the acronyms, from the perspective of a two fingered typist, are anything but inane. More a Godsend.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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As I understand it the HKAOA is offering a complete return to normal working in this time of crisis...........let's hope that there is a reciprocation when the crisis is over.
The WHO on the World Service last night sounded a great deal more worried about SARS than the apologists above, in fact it seems to me that attitudes like 'don't worry it's only flu....' were part of the reason that all this got out of control. The WHO said they were increasingly worried that, amongst the 9 that died yesterday, some were fully fit before contracting the disease, and yet still died, refuting the suggestion that it was a disease that only killed those already in some sort of respiratory distress. More info can be found for both pax and crew on the Center for Disease Control website, based in Atlanta, which is in overall control of this sort of situation.
For those who say that SARS only has a 4% death rate, a: who wants to volunteer to be one of the 4%? b: the world population is now 4.8 billion, many, many more than in the 1919 influenza pandemic, and the spread of vectors through all sorts of travel could turn this really nasty. Multiply 4.8 billion by 4%, and see what the answer is, and you'll see why the WHO and CDC are worried. Hiding under the covers over this will not help to find a solution, and in fact may make things a great deal more difficult to control.
Finally, while worrying about your one weeks unpaid leave, spare a thought for the local people in Hong Kong, attempting to get through this difficult and fightening time under a drastically underfunded medical system overseen by a bunch of bureacrats who are obviously desparately out of their depth.
The WHO on the World Service last night sounded a great deal more worried about SARS than the apologists above, in fact it seems to me that attitudes like 'don't worry it's only flu....' were part of the reason that all this got out of control. The WHO said they were increasingly worried that, amongst the 9 that died yesterday, some were fully fit before contracting the disease, and yet still died, refuting the suggestion that it was a disease that only killed those already in some sort of respiratory distress. More info can be found for both pax and crew on the Center for Disease Control website, based in Atlanta, which is in overall control of this sort of situation.
For those who say that SARS only has a 4% death rate, a: who wants to volunteer to be one of the 4%? b: the world population is now 4.8 billion, many, many more than in the 1919 influenza pandemic, and the spread of vectors through all sorts of travel could turn this really nasty. Multiply 4.8 billion by 4%, and see what the answer is, and you'll see why the WHO and CDC are worried. Hiding under the covers over this will not help to find a solution, and in fact may make things a great deal more difficult to control.
Finally, while worrying about your one weeks unpaid leave, spare a thought for the local people in Hong Kong, attempting to get through this difficult and fightening time under a drastically underfunded medical system overseen by a bunch of bureacrats who are obviously desparately out of their depth.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Excellent post, raitfaiter. Hope you don`t mind, but I have cut and pasted the "guts" of it (with due acknowledgement to you) on the D & G forum.
The "she`ll be right mate", "let`s ignore it, and it will go away" mindset of some, is a great cause for concern.
Perhaps some short term, drastic measures - such as cancelling SOME flights NOW - will allow ALL of us to get back to a fully operational position much sooner than doing nothing, and helping spread SARS farther afield, faster.
The "she`ll be right mate", "let`s ignore it, and it will go away" mindset of some, is a great cause for concern.
Perhaps some short term, drastic measures - such as cancelling SOME flights NOW - will allow ALL of us to get back to a fully operational position much sooner than doing nothing, and helping spread SARS farther afield, faster.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Excellent reading:
'Tidal Wave', by Robert Prechter Jr.
'Achilles Shield', by Philip Bobbit (not the bro to Lorraine).
Before you wind out a vitriolic response to Prechter, take a long, hard, objective look at his record.
Same goes for Bobbit.
How does this relate to SARS?
Any replication of mine, here, regarding the research and conclusions of these two giants would be a poor one indeed, so just go out and buy the book yourself, or go to a library.
Go ahead. Wail and gnash the teeth. Then hit me with a few abusive emails or posts, but the Dow is set to go to 1000, minimum, after 300 years of a larger trend upwards.
SARS is one road; ghastly nuclear explosions in major cities, another.
And we are at war again - after an end to what is being referred to as the Long War (1914 - 1990), this time with global terrorism, pitted against against a nation-state (USA) that has proved it is not going to sit by and idly watch the virtual nation-state of Al Qaeda tear its avowed enemy apart.
Prepare for a long and difficult 50 years.
And say goodbye to some major icons; in this case, CX (SARS).
'Tidal Wave', by Robert Prechter Jr.
'Achilles Shield', by Philip Bobbit (not the bro to Lorraine).
Before you wind out a vitriolic response to Prechter, take a long, hard, objective look at his record.
Same goes for Bobbit.
How does this relate to SARS?
Any replication of mine, here, regarding the research and conclusions of these two giants would be a poor one indeed, so just go out and buy the book yourself, or go to a library.
Go ahead. Wail and gnash the teeth. Then hit me with a few abusive emails or posts, but the Dow is set to go to 1000, minimum, after 300 years of a larger trend upwards.
SARS is one road; ghastly nuclear explosions in major cities, another.
And we are at war again - after an end to what is being referred to as the Long War (1914 - 1990), this time with global terrorism, pitted against against a nation-state (USA) that has proved it is not going to sit by and idly watch the virtual nation-state of Al Qaeda tear its avowed enemy apart.
Prepare for a long and difficult 50 years.
And say goodbye to some major icons; in this case, CX (SARS).
Join Date: Jun 2001
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sean1, you are quite correct.
But how many infected cases ARE there? India is ominously silent on this, and given their governments attitude towards the HIV/AIDS pandemic, who knows?
But how many infected cases ARE there? India is ominously silent on this, and given their governments attitude towards the HIV/AIDS pandemic, who knows?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Yes, a male CX cabin crew is a confirmed SARS sufferer. However, it is not clear whether he contracted the disease onboard or elsewhere. Statistically, I think you would expect one or two CX personnel to catch the disease if 1400 people out of a population of 7 million have it, particularly since they will be one of the more mobile groups.
