At Cathay, can you bid to change fleet? (At some point...)
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
At Cathay, can you bid to change fleet? (At some point...)
I am considering moving to CPA with my partner who has been offered a job in HK.
Understand fleet assignment is random and essentially you only really know when you join on day 1 and start. However, is there any scope to move fleets once the bond has expired? If initially assigned short haul on 321, would a switch to long haul be possible?
Are short/long haul command times different? Where I am at present, short-haul command (first airline command) took about 2 years vs 20+ at long haul.
Is there short-haul flying all there and back? Or are there nightstops? Again, where I am at present has 1-5 day trips, which I enjoy.
Any input would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Understand fleet assignment is random and essentially you only really know when you join on day 1 and start. However, is there any scope to move fleets once the bond has expired? If initially assigned short haul on 321, would a switch to long haul be possible?
Are short/long haul command times different? Where I am at present, short-haul command (first airline command) took about 2 years vs 20+ at long haul.
Is there short-haul flying all there and back? Or are there nightstops? Again, where I am at present has 1-5 day trips, which I enjoy.
Any input would be appreciated.
Many thanks.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
Likes: 20
From: HKG
If you end up in the recruitment process, the People (HR) department might promise you a type. If you have a pulse and are therefore accepted, on day one in HKG you might then be told you are now on a different type. I know of two experienced 777 pilots, promised the 777, on first day at CX told they where going to the 321. They quit the same day.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Fair enough. Thanks for the input.
I am not too bothered by what I am initially assigned but would prefer the option of being able to transfer in the future (rather than move somewhere else).
Any ideas what the rosters are like?
I am not too bothered by what I am initially assigned but would prefer the option of being able to transfer in the future (rather than move somewhere else).
Any ideas what the rosters are like?
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
Likes: 20
From: HKG
For an FO: 747 & 321 not enough to live on. 330 flat out, no days off. 350 so, so. 777 cruising, just enough to live on. Changes as the crew numbers change.
If you have some hours look into the HKG corporate jet scene. The HKG airlines (CX, HKE, GBA) aren't a great crowd to work for.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Thanks again.
What do you mean by 'not enough to live off'? Is there not some sort of monthly guarantee that's in place in terms of pay and anything above than limit would be an unexpected extra?
What do you mean by 'not enough to live off'? Is there not some sort of monthly guarantee that's in place in terms of pay and anything above than limit would be an unexpected extra?
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 98
Likes: 4
From: Angola
The fixed part of the salary is not much.
Do your homework, obviously it all depends on your partner job, is it a good job with a good salary.
How long do you think you will be staying in HK, family plans ?
My wife was working for fun, with Cos18 she started working hard and we are doing ok.
I defo had other plans when I joined, now earning the same money I was earning 16 years ago’ when I joined.
Do your homework, obviously it all depends on your partner job, is it a good job with a good salary.
How long do you think you will be staying in HK, family plans ?
My wife was working for fun, with Cos18 she started working hard and we are doing ok.
I defo had other plans when I joined, now earning the same money I was earning 16 years ago’ when I joined.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2025
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
So what I am taking away from this is there is a fixed/guaranteed element to the salary which is lower than what they advertise on the website/job advert. The advertised number is based on achieving the target hours for that particular fleet.
My question now is, is there any guarantee that you will be rostered with enough duties to meet the target hours? Seems a bit backward if they are advertising a job with X as a salary based on a target amount but they won't actually roster you for that amount.
My question now is, is there any guarantee that you will be rostered with enough duties to meet the target hours? Seems a bit backward if they are advertising a job with X as a salary based on a target amount but they won't actually roster you for that amount.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 674
Likes: 10
From: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Right now on some fleet/rank combinations they’re raking it in (although paying for it in health), on others making little or nothing over the fixed guarantee. All subject to change due to fleet size fluctuations, AOGs, bad weather or sickness, or simply a Friday evening email advising that you must now work many more hours before making excess flight pay.
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: PH
For an FO: 747 & 321 not enough to live on. 330 flat out, no days off. 350 so, so. 777 cruising, just enough to live on. Changes as the crew numbers change.
If you have some hours look into the HKG corporate jet scene. The HKG airlines (CX, HKE, GBA) aren't a great crowd to work for.
If you have some hours look into the HKG corporate jet scene. The HKG airlines (CX, HKE, GBA) aren't a great crowd to work for.
I’m exploring my options and CX is one of them. If you would help me out with some numbers? I’ve been told FO1 on the 321 is a base of 55K plus 20K living allowances for a total of 75K. With an apartment costing around 25k leaves you 50K. Save some for the tax man would leave you with around 40K or 8k AUD a month. Not a huge amount but more than I’d be making in Australia (JQ). Is that not enough for a young family? What am I missing?
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 657
Likes: 47
From: Asia
I’m exploring my options and CX is one of them. If you would help me out with some numbers? I’ve been told FO1 on the 321 is a base of 55K plus 20K living allowances for a total of 75K. With an apartment costing around 25k leaves you 50K. Save some for the tax man would leave you with around 40K or 8k AUD a month. Not a huge amount but more than I’d be making in Australia (JQ). Is that not enough for a young family? What am I missing?
Says it all, doesn’t it…
P.s.: Pre Covid the package was worth double
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 192
Likes: 17
From: By the sea
If you're going to be in HKG anyway, why not. With your experience I'm guessing they'll put you on a wide body, could be any of them. Putting you on the 321 just robs sectors from pilots coming up from the cadet pathway. Even CX can see that. Maybe they'll offer you Express with quick command. I haven't heard a good Express story yet, but who knows, might work for you, I'd dodge it. The secret of HKG is to come from somewhere pretty awful, like England, makes it much easier to settle. The problem is you'll be signing up to an amendable handbook, not a contract. That's the wild card. It could end up anywhere, and they are stacking the ranks with locals who'll be less inclined to move along as it continues to spiral down. Half of CX's pilots have left voluntarily since a take it or leave conditions of service was dumped in our laps deep in covid. You've been told, CX has form, that is easily researchable. Can you move off the 321? Only one accurate answer, maybe. Re target hours, pax wide body doing 800 plus hours a year. Others, not so much. It's gamble only you can make. Welcome to CX.
Last edited by pill; 15th February 2025 at 23:28. Reason: can't spell
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 98
Likes: 4
From: Angola
If you're going to be in HKG anyway, why not. With your experience I'm guessing they'll put you on a wide body, could be any of them. Putting you on the 321 just robs sectors from pilots coming up from the cadet pathway. Even CX can see that. Maybe they'll offer you Express with quick command. I haven't heard a good Express story yet, but who knows, might work for you, I'd dodge it. The secret of HKG is to come from somewhere pretty awful, like England, makes it much easier to settle. The problem is you'll be signing up to an amendable handbook, not a contract. That's the wild card. It could end up anywhere, and they are stacking the ranks with locals who'll be less inclined to move along as it continues to spiral down. Half of CX's pilots have left voluntarily since a take it or leave conditions of service was dumped in our laps deep in covid. You've been told, CX has form, that is easily researchable. Can you move off the 321? Only one accurate answer, maybe. Re target hours, pax wide body doing 800 plus hours a year. Others, not so much. It's gamble only you can make. Welcome to CX.
A lot of ifs, we have all been predicting CX moves for years using logic and failed miserably, they usually screw up the numbers (amongst other things) then try to rectify in a hurry.
That is when they offer fleet changes.
Yes they are recruiting locally, lot of FOP managers are local as well now, and from places where people probably don’t want go back to; in my opinion they will have precedence over the rest if a choice need to be made.
I have the feeling if you have experience you would end up where they need relief FOs, there are not nearly enough, failure rate to become one is very high and the senior RQs are getting their commands.
I wouldn’t consider HKE, if you decide to move go for Cx first.
Good luck with your decision
Last edited by Zi Peng; 16th February 2025 at 00:53.
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 80
Likes: 3
From: Somewhere
Quote: "I have the feeling if you have experience you would end up where they need relief FOs, there are not nearly enough, failure rate to become one is very high and the senior RQs are getting their commands."
What's the reason for the failures? What is the process of becoming a relief FO?
What's the reason for the failures? What is the process of becoming a relief FO?
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 223
Likes: 66
Cathay traditionally had a higher than average failure rate for upgrade to Command. Not because the people involved were below industry average, but because CX established and enforced much higher standards than was common in the industry. You could at one time be certain that the Captain in charge of a CX aircraft was arguably the most highly trained and of the highest standard (no other airline in the world had a 6 month Command upgrade course, with multiple checks and relentless scrutiny and expectations). Needless to say, with the exodus of hundreds of thousands of flying hours experience in the airline, it now faces a two-fold problem: 1) the need to replace that experience, and 2) the consequence of losing that experience. CX management now find that they have to compromise on their once industry "gold standard", which established their reputation and unique place in the aviation industry.
There still is a lingering legacy of their former standards remaining in the current Flt Ops management. However, it is not in dispute that with the rapid localization of the airline management, the unique "expat mentality"of how the airline was run is diminishing. The reality is CX is rapidly becoming "just another Asian airline".
Flt Ops management genuinely wish to maintain their standards, but the political and cultural pressures inherent in the shifting mix of nationalities and cultures will surely change CX, and not for the better. The failure rate will likely remain high, and perhaps go higher with the intent of maintaining standards. The problem is that the raw material management have to work with is no longer on average the same high standard they always had. Eventually, the failure rate will begin to decrease...and that is then truly the moment you can begin to worry for the safety of the airline.
In the past, the high failure rate represented the core reason that CX was a magnificent airline. It's standards were higher than any of it's industry peers, and ruthlessly maintained. Now, that is surely not the case.
There still is a lingering legacy of their former standards remaining in the current Flt Ops management. However, it is not in dispute that with the rapid localization of the airline management, the unique "expat mentality"of how the airline was run is diminishing. The reality is CX is rapidly becoming "just another Asian airline".
Flt Ops management genuinely wish to maintain their standards, but the political and cultural pressures inherent in the shifting mix of nationalities and cultures will surely change CX, and not for the better. The failure rate will likely remain high, and perhaps go higher with the intent of maintaining standards. The problem is that the raw material management have to work with is no longer on average the same high standard they always had. Eventually, the failure rate will begin to decrease...and that is then truly the moment you can begin to worry for the safety of the airline.
In the past, the high failure rate represented the core reason that CX was a magnificent airline. It's standards were higher than any of it's industry peers, and ruthlessly maintained. Now, that is surely not the case.
Last edited by mngmt mole; 16th February 2025 at 14:18.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
Likes: 20
From: HKG
Quote: "I have the feeling if you have experience you would end up where they need relief FOs, there are not nearly enough, failure rate to become one is very high and the senior RQs are getting their commands."
What's the reason for the failures? What is the process of becoming a relief FO?
What's the reason for the failures? What is the process of becoming a relief FO?
Some others failed the RQ sim check because on a diversion in procedural airspace they flew into the side of a hill.
The ex-Dragon pilots are experienced in Asia but haven't spent much time in the remoter areas of the network.
Experience levels are in free fall. Some C&T still set a reasonable standard, but there is immense pressure on them to pass candidates. The vast majority of Relief Commanders are adequate. There are a few I have flown with who should not be left unsupervised.