CX Direct Entry Captain A321
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: In Sin
Returning pilots will have a significant bond to sign, circa $HK300000. Nice . Pre redundancy , senior KA captains were on a basic of over $150k / month ( with OT/ housing & education giving 300k plus/ month ) , I understand its around $90 now for cx, but with a more “ productivity “ based salary?
I would expect KA crew to be offered A320 , and be fairly low down on the pecking order regarding the interview process. CX has had to make vacancies open to former “ group” pilots least they fall foul of discrimination laws. However, they don’t have to interview any ex KA pilots, they will be kept on file , incase cx need a few skippers to cover china on the short term .
Apparently, there’s been an overwhelming interest from retired CX guys, and again CX are patting themselves on the back for thinking of this strategy to fill the gaping hole of experience .
I would expect KA crew to be offered A320 , and be fairly low down on the pecking order regarding the interview process. CX has had to make vacancies open to former “ group” pilots least they fall foul of discrimination laws. However, they don’t have to interview any ex KA pilots, they will be kept on file , incase cx need a few skippers to cover china on the short term .
Apparently, there’s been an overwhelming interest from retired CX guys, and again CX are patting themselves on the back for thinking of this strategy to fill the gaping hole of experience .
Eidolon
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 62
From: Some hole
The exact opposite if happening, those for example were on a base for a long long time, and COVID used as the excuse to close the base, reemployed as a FO are being told years for command. Whilst KA FO who were only had around 5 years in KA, have already started their commands in CX, quicker than they would have if KA remained. Meanwhile we have 18 year FOs on the 747 that cannot get a course.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Should've opened the flood gates for 320 DEFO and DECN at the very beginning. Offer it to existing cx crew in seniority, and make sure it's clearly understood that when theres no more internal applicants then external direct entry (Ex KA and CX or whoever else) will fill the gap. Any existing cx crew complaining about direct entry trumping their seniority get shut down with a simple "you could have applied and got your course ahead of them. So why didn't you?".
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 206
Likes: 20
From: DSOTM
The exact opposite if happening, those for example were on a base for a long long time, and COVID used as the excuse to close the base, reemployed as a FO are being told years for command. Whilst KA FO who were only had around 5 years in KA, have already started their commands in CX, quicker than they would have if KA remained. Meanwhile we have 18 year FOs on the 747 that cannot get a course.
Why would anyone ever reject a command?
Last edited by drfaust; 30th July 2024 at 15:52.
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 175
Likes: 25
From: Hk
I don’t begrudge those ex-KA going back. It is a submission. And make no mistake, CX management are only taking ex-KA because they are desperate. They treated us and our families with disdain, they had government loans to preserve their human capital which was relatively elite by regional standards. That sounds a little conceited. I don’t mean it to be. If they preserved expertise they would have been ahead of the market making a fortune.
Pay and an incredible leave system permitted KA pilots to endure a toxic management culture ( when at its worst ) and the drudge and endurance of China flying. Pay is gone? Lifestyle is gone? Toxic culture is?
Pay and an incredible leave system permitted KA pilots to endure a toxic management culture ( when at its worst ) and the drudge and endurance of China flying. Pay is gone? Lifestyle is gone? Toxic culture is?
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Last edited by T28B; 31st July 2024 at 12:34. Reason: pointless insults removed
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 387
Likes: 2
From: shoe box
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Those convicts think they are all that and some !
KA. Known Aussies !
And now that Aussie, Mac Daddy, will be running the Boeing show !
Joined: Jul 2024
Posts: 575
Likes: 431
From: Outbush
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
relatively elite.
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Maybe I should have not have been lazy and used a Thesaurus to find a less contentious word than elite.
There was nothing elite about the KA job however KA was evidently way above the bar on performance into China. Our management labelled this elite and took it to the board along with LOSA carry-on. I think they took the credit via the Training Dept.
What would elite performance constitute when operating into China from a business perspective? And for diversity of network and frequency of service there was no other foreign carrier that came close to KA. It was a politically charged environment and incidents were penalised with demerit points. So there was a level of aviation maturity required.
So how did CX passenger op’s fair into China versus KA. At a fraction of the frequency! Not well we were told. Maxed out demerit points and during the political turmoil, there was belligerence and indifference by some to ramp checks and the political importance behind them.
This wasn’t meant to be a CX versus KA narrative and nobody is claiming to be better pilots or have a better job than CX pilots at the time. But there were clear reasons for better performance into China including familiarity and flexibility. Your SOP’s were terrible when thrusted upon us by a loaned CX management pilot. It didn’t matter to him because he did a weekly FUK run.
KA pilots were also extremely well paid and had a magnificent leave scheme ( offsetting workplace toxicity ). Most approached the job like a contract pilot, good for three months, better not screw up or it’s a spiral and the end result the door, to be told by the GMO you’d be forgotten in a month ( this is true actually). When we had a 2 x loss of com’s we were told the next offender would be sacked. CX pilots were told to wear headsets. I must add that by the end, KA’s Just Culture was fair and solid. I’d get flamed in some circles for that but I believe it indisputably true.
So hopefully you can see nobody wants your Hat or thinks they better than you. And getting back to the thread it always seemed incongruous that CX didn’t preserve or rehire ex-KA pilots earlier. Well not until completely desperate and under political pressure to expand quicker.
The Employee Engagement Survey was supposedly so damming that those who conducted it, had nothing to work with and didn’t know what to take to management. This was whispers from KA pilots who were randomly called in by the survey providers for whatever the reason was. The veracity is not 100% although it does explain what I believe to be a very slow rehire of ex-KA.
Don’t ever do these industrially weaponised surveys ever again in your career, unless you are a chimpanzee aviator who thinks you’ll get a banana for your constructive critique of the operation.
You haven’t slept a wink in the Chinese Holiday Inn because the CCP mandated a 26 degree room temperature. There’s nothing to eat. You’ve got three sectors in your 330. Delays unknown. And a mainlander defecates in the First Class basin. No wonder so many CX Captains resigned post-COVID. Why would you do that for a job?
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 1st August 2024 at 22:08.
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 218
From: Eden Valley
You are now habitually misconstruing my point. I’ll keep it simple for you. Perhaps you were making the bunk transiting CCP airspace, otherwise you were on a headset. KA were rewarded for an “elite” LOSA performance and less “incidents” with the freedom to belt around China on speaker. That’s tongue in cheek and as simple as I can make.
BTW. How’d you fair out of the KA carcass? Temporary or some permanent opportunities for you?
BTW. How’d you fair out of the KA carcass? Temporary or some permanent opportunities for you?
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: World
You are now habitually misconstruing my point. I’ll keep it simple for you. Perhaps you were making the bunk transiting CCP airspace, otherwise you were on a headset. KA were rewarded for an “elite” LOSA performance and less “incidents” with the freedom to belt around China on speaker. That’s tongue in cheek and as simple as I can make.
BTW. How’d you fair out of the KA carcass? Temporary or some permanent opportunities for you?
BTW. How’d you fair out of the KA carcass? Temporary or some permanent opportunities for you?
Elite? CX was one of the first international carriers to get RNP AR approval into JFK but I couldn’t really care less, unlike us you’d probably be able to manage it without your David Clarke so well done. By the way most USA carriers were wearing headsets in Chinese airspace as well but once again who cares.
For most of us this is just a job and don’t care much for the pissing contest.
Last edited by chards; 3rd August 2024 at 11:03.
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 98
Likes: 4
From: Angola
Yes he probably misconstrued your point but the way you explain it does come across as pretty obnoxious. Been flying around China for more than 20 years and never really found it a big deal. Personally arriving into North American ports with heavy traffic in the middle of a blizzard after a 15 hour sector was way more challenging.
Elite? CX was one of the first international carriers to get RNP AR approval into JFK but I couldn’t really care less, unlike us you’d probably be able to manage it without your David Clarke so well done. By the way most USA carriers were wearing headsets in Chinese airspace as well but once again who cares.
For most of us this is just a job and don’t care much for the pissing contest.
Elite? CX was one of the first international carriers to get RNP AR approval into JFK but I couldn’t really care less, unlike us you’d probably be able to manage it without your David Clarke so well done. By the way most USA carriers were wearing headsets in Chinese airspace as well but once again who cares.
For most of us this is just a job and don’t care much for the pissing contest.
BTW we fly RNP AR into JFK because we were probably ******* it up; when it doesn’t work,and it doesn’t at times, and you need to do a bit of piloting everybody go silent. Not because you are doing anything amazing but just because they have never seen it. That tells a lot. So again no point having a pissing contest. I find all the ex KA very good, not so sure about some CX pilots these days, FOs and CNs.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 23
Likes: 2
From: Not in HKG
relatively elite.
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Wow, what a piece of work....no wonder there is so little empathy in the company.
"It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags"
Have a look around the Crewroom whilst you are checking your iPad is charged and the comply is up to date, you are now doing all that flying in manky old 330's.
KA made your job good, because we did all the heavy lifting.
Show some humility, a lot of people lost everything and only 8 were rewarded.
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 128
Likes: 13
From: Asia
relatively elite.
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Christ, have you ex-KA heard yourselves?
Stop pretending you were something that you’re not. You’re all coming across like a retired drunk at the golf club.
There was nothing elite about it. It was a load of manky A320s filled with people spitting into plastic bags and then it was shuttered. Move on.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: World
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 19
Likes: 2
From: N/A