Why would you come to CX?
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 381
Likes: 7
From: CLK
Originally Posted by Oasis
; They should be paying the captains 30 percent MORE, not less!
Then discussion should continue on real COSILIV increases….
Dont believe the hype, and I know, “tell ‘I’m he’s dreamin…”
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 10th February 2024 at 20:46. Reason: Quote
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 2
From: Lonely planet
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 157
Likes: 3
From: uk
Raven , you raise a very valid point , but safety sadly is driven by lip service and money .If RH was a manager of repute he would not have needed input from the training dept he would have taken action on his own on the merit of the issue.
so let’s take a worse case scenario , a brand new SO is on his own in the flight deck whilst the FO takes a toilet break . Explosive decompression occurs , the supplementary CA sitting in the jump seat has no Oxygen supply so has passed out by the time the FO tries to get back in .
Thus the SO may have to manage the entire process on his own not something that fills me confidence .
so let’s take a worse case scenario , a brand new SO is on his own in the flight deck whilst the FO takes a toilet break . Explosive decompression occurs , the supplementary CA sitting in the jump seat has no Oxygen supply so has passed out by the time the FO tries to get back in .
Thus the SO may have to manage the entire process on his own not something that fills me confidence .
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 22
From: Hong Kong
Joblow….I’ll take your example one step further. Time of useful consciousness at 41,000 feet in an explosive decompression is less than 10 seconds and requires pressure breathing oxygen. In your example, the brand new second officer and young cabin attendant in the cockpit fail to extract and get their masks on in less than 10 seconds….
The relief crew outside the cockpit will not have pressure breathing oxygen available to them as they attempt to use emergency door entry procedures to bypass the locked cockpit door and they succumb to hypoxia. The aircraft continues to fly until it runs out of fuel….
i raised this very scenario many times to Flight Ops management to no avail…..because…safety was their top priority.
The relief crew outside the cockpit will not have pressure breathing oxygen available to them as they attempt to use emergency door entry procedures to bypass the locked cockpit door and they succumb to hypoxia. The aircraft continues to fly until it runs out of fuel….
i raised this very scenario many times to Flight Ops management to no avail…..because…safety was their top priority.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
From: Hong Kong
An SO should have more exposure to emergency descents in training. This said, the problem is the lack of exposure to actually operating the aircraft, which also results in a lack of engagement on the job. It's one thing to know the procedure in the sim, and another to not get jittery when something actually happens and the guy in the seat isn't completely comfortable in the aircraft.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: New York
It makes me wonder if you are actually a pilot at all.
Perhaps you are not as smart as you think you are.
Last edited by Frank W. Abagnale; 10th February 2024 at 04:26.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 190
Likes: 4
From: asia
The odds of an explosive decompression in the cockpit are about 1/billion or even more. If that did happen then you'd have 10 seconds consciousness, BUT you'd probably die from frostbite, as well as your top lips being ripped off and your lungs exploding as 900kph wind hits them, plus you wouldn't be able to see anything anyway.. but a "normal" explosive decompression somewhere on the plane would still take a long time to suck out all the air, so the 10 seconds isn't really accurate and you would have plenty time to don your mask and get the old Captain and Co-Pilot to hurry back into the cockpit for any help you may need...
I'm pretty sure a SO can work out how to descend the plane without ripping the wings off her
I'm pretty sure a SO can work out how to descend the plane without ripping the wings off her
Please tell me you don't fly jets for a living!.....
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 95
Likes: 19
From: On a few nerves apparently
Wow wow wow...
Who was it said "you better keep your mouth shut and appear stupid rather than open it and remove all doubt".
The levels of green lack of knowledge and understanding in some of the above comments are astonishing. I'd rather do a rapid descent all alone by myself any day than have one like these sitting next to me attempting to help.
If these are cathay pilots, it truly shows the scary low levels of knowledge and experience present on cathay flight decks today.
Who was it said "you better keep your mouth shut and appear stupid rather than open it and remove all doubt".
The levels of green lack of knowledge and understanding in some of the above comments are astonishing. I'd rather do a rapid descent all alone by myself any day than have one like these sitting next to me attempting to help.
If these are cathay pilots, it truly shows the scary low levels of knowledge and experience present on cathay flight decks today.
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 51
Likes: 2
From: Hong Kong
In the last 50 years, on western civil aircraft, how many sudden cases of loss of cabin pressure and subsequent application of 10-20 sec of TUC? Now consider the number of flights where it did not happen. Then consider the total flight time of all flights globally and put it in relation to the total time of a long haul flight with an inexperienced SO alone in the seat.
I think Magenta is not far off, less than one in a billion would be my guess.
I think Magenta is not far off, less than one in a billion would be my guess.
Last edited by Meursault; 10th February 2024 at 12:30.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 22
From: Hong Kong
Meursault
Now give us the stats on the chances of loosing an engine during a heavy weight take off precisely at V1…..
It’s the limited thinking like yours that led to the disastrous development of the 737 Max. How’s that working out for Boeing?
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
Now give us the stats on the chances of loosing an engine during a heavy weight take off precisely at V1…..
It’s the limited thinking like yours that led to the disastrous development of the 737 Max. How’s that working out for Boeing?
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 22
From: Hong Kong
V for Vendetta
Totally agree.
Just before I retired I had a line SO on a check ride that was completely unaware of the requirement for pressure breathing above 35,000’; he was also adamant that the concept of “Time of Useful Consciousness” regarding the onset of hypoxia in a high altitude decompression was a myth because he could hold his breath for over a minute…..
He was a fully rated P2X line pilot.
As I posted earlier…what could go wrong?
Totally agree.
Just before I retired I had a line SO on a check ride that was completely unaware of the requirement for pressure breathing above 35,000’; he was also adamant that the concept of “Time of Useful Consciousness” regarding the onset of hypoxia in a high altitude decompression was a myth because he could hold his breath for over a minute…..
He was a fully rated P2X line pilot.
As I posted earlier…what could go wrong?
Joined: Jan 2024
Posts: 51
Likes: 2
From: Hong Kong
Meursault
Now give us the stats on the chances of loosing an engine during a heavy weight take off precisely at V1…..
It’s the limited thinking like yours that led to the disastrous development of the 737 Max. How’s that working out for Boeing?
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.
Now give us the stats on the chances of loosing an engine during a heavy weight take off precisely at V1…..
It’s the limited thinking like yours that led to the disastrous development of the 737 Max. How’s that working out for Boeing?
Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.