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Cathay Pacific imploding.

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Cathay Pacific imploding.

Old 13th Jul 2023, 23:01
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I would hardly put Red Oddington as an equal to Sutch. His tenure was the start of the rot. Then there was David Downturn...
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 23:37
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I share and understand the anger about the demise of T&C for staff,obviously.

What I don't get is the conclusion "low pay= downfall/implosion of the airline".

I would argue it's the opposite. Bad for us, but very good for them. Cathay will be highly profitable not the least because of the cost cutting.Rather than an implosion of the airline we saw an implosion of our T&C. Big difference. I think we will see an explosion of bonusses and the share price.

There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives.


Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 13th Jul 2023 at 23:50.
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 07:30
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
I share and understand the anger about the demise of T&C for staff,obviously.

What I don't get is the conclusion "low pay= downfall/implosion of the airline".

I would argue it's the opposite. Bad for us, but very good for them. Cathay will be highly profitable not the least because of the cost cutting.Rather than an implosion of the airline we saw an implosion of our T&C. Big difference. I think we will see an explosion of bonusses and the share price.

There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives.

https://www.marketplace.org/2023/07/...-about-it/amp/
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 08:02
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STW, to counter your argument regarding the cut in Ts and Cs being a death nell for CX;

1) It could limit any recovery (missed opportunity) due to a lack of pilots. Yes, there will always be takers, but they're the bottom of the barrel, so they likely won't pass selection or training, or take and awfully long time to do so. And rightly so, as the trainers attempt to maintain the standards of old.

2) An incident/accident/hull loss creating bad publicity and loss of confidence amongst the flying public due to either the ineptitude of the new recruits, or more likely, due to stress in the flight deck amongst the old guard.

HUTT out.
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 11:05
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Kitsune, this article is about a shortage in the US. Not relevant for Cathay.

Hutt, the recruitment of cadets has not changed over the last 20+ years. No change regarding safety or quality. And a slower expansion due to an (alleged) short term shortage would still be an expansion, not an implosion. It's wishful thinking I am afraid.
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 15:17
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"No change regarding safety or quality."

I only wish that was and is true
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Old 14th Jul 2023, 21:56
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I am not trying to comment on the quality of cadets, but the recruitment process has definitely changed within the past 5 years. This includes the removal of flight grading from the selection process, lowering the requirement from icao 5 to icao 4 (it was always icao 4 on the website but they used to never accept anyone below a 5). Since they reopened applications post-covid, they have also reduced the interview process from the previous 2 day session with multiple exercises per day to 1 online HR interview + 1 face to face technical interview. But the logic behind this from what I understand is since the cadets now pay back half of the training costs, recruitment are taking less of a risk by loosening up the requirements and they can instead rely harder on FTA/Aeroguard Arizona to weed out the applicants that are not up to standard.

Last edited by Posterizing; 14th Jul 2023 at 23:54.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 05:17
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There will always be takers?

Is that why cathay has missed every single flight schedule restoration target it has set for itself since 2+ years ago? because they always have enough takers?

They can't attract people for any job description for quite some time now.

How about the few fake logbook aces that were struggling in training before they were found out to have fake logbooks?

How about the rash of hard landings on the 747 fleet a few months ago?

The lesser number of people they're getting seens to be a much lower grade of pilots the great mighty cathay pacific used to fetch. 1st face to face interview at various locations worldwide, some got invited for the hk 2 full days of various batteries of testing and assessment. 5 out of 20 would get the coveted job offer in the end. With the much lowered standards they're still not getting enough to not miss every target they set for re-expansion.

Every action has a result. Everything they have done to the pay and benefits of their employees will always translate down to every aspect of the business. You get what you pay for. Its impossible the business will flurish and become similarly profitable or successful once again. Those employees of the past are gone. They no longer exist. Wether those who have left (2000 of them pilots) or those who are still there but no longer give a sh!t about anything and will leave 1st chance they get.

Those who are coming at a tricle are selected by a much lower standard selection process. They'll never be able to perform like those of the past.

The spotless safety records of the past are in the past. The impeccable customer service is a thing of the past.
Impeccably maintained aircraft are a thing of the past.


Last edited by VforVENDETTA; 15th Jul 2023 at 09:56.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 06:46
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V for V. Oh so true, every word.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 08:07
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V for V - a post laden with spelling mistakes! However, no mistakes whatsoever in your points. Absolutely spot on!
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 09:52
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Originally Posted by HeadUpTheTailpipe
V for V - a post laden with spelling mistakes! However, no mistakes whatsoever in your points. Absolutely spot on!
My sincere apologies. I had someone nagging at me to hurry up and let's go at the coffee shop. Got rushed. 😅
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 09:57
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Pilots apparently just part of the problem, they are struggling for all sorts of personnel starting with Haeco.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 10:45
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Can I ask: since when do foís get checked to line in 15 sectors? Used to be a minimum of 40.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 10:48
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong;[url=tel:11467000
11467000[/url]]I share and understand the anger about the demise of T&C for staff,obviously.

What I don't get is the conclusion "low pay= downfall/implosion of the airline".

I would argue it's the opposite. Bad for us, but very good for them. Cathay will be highly profitable not the least because of the cost cutting.Rather than an implosion of the airline we saw an implosion of our T&C. Big difference. I think we will see an explosion of bonusses and the share price.

There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives.
Europe seems pretty short too, salary going up and everyone seems to be hiring.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 11:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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So the next logical question is the Swiss Cheese issue.

With SO many massive structural downward adjustments, weaknesses, shortcuts in recruiting and training (and thus so many holes in the cheese), when will those holes tragically align?

With everything we know about safety, how the hell can this still happen in this day and age?

Beggars belief.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 12:35
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Al E. Vator
So the next logical question is the Swiss Cheese issue.

With SO many massive structural downward adjustments, weaknesses, shortcuts in recruiting and training (and thus so many holes in the cheese), when will those holes tragically align?

With everything we know about safety, how the hell can this still happen in this day and age?

Beggars belief.
maybe thats why theyre trying to move away from the swiss cheese model and focusing on threat and error management. no holes to align if you dont believe in the holes.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 12:46
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
There is no global pilot shortage either, but a regional one in US and Australia. No shortage in SA, Europe and Asia. And I doubt a shortage of cadets is even technically possible, considering the profile of applicants and associated alternative job perspectives.
Actually, Europe & China / South Asia have some of the largest demands.



https://www.boeing.com/commercial/ma...ician-outlook/
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 13:04
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Originally Posted by Oasis
Europe seems pretty short too, salary going up and everyone seems to be hiring.
Check the payscales at the few airlines who hire at the moment: Whizzair, Lot, Air Baltic,Ryanair, Aerologic and Eurowings. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. If you digested that, substract 40% tax.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 17:07
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure if you just like being some sort of contrarian but thereís not just a regional pilot shortage in the US. Demand is now untapped and expansion plans are being crippled at many carriers. The attrition rates Iím seeing and hearing of are something Iíve never witnessed in the industry before. I spent time at a major carrier where we were briefed on pilot demand not being met and exacerbated by a need to have check and training staff flying the line to meet summer demand. Which was at pre-COVID levels only.

I donít think thereís meat on the bone. If Asia picks up much further demand wonít be met and the pilot shortage will arrive. What will that mean for CX pilots? Not much. Maybe a little more pity from outsiders. But good luck anyways.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 19:18
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
Check the payscales at the few airlines who hire at the moment: Whizzair, Lot, Air Baltic,Ryanair, Aerologic and Eurowings. Maybe sit down before you do first, and don't hold a hot coffee in your hand. If you digested that, substract 40% tax.

You just listed the lowest paying european low cost airlines. Why don't you compare it with a legacy carrier, they are hiring too.
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