Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 17:49
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What's up

No new threads, no whining, all must be OK then
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 21:38
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Accepted their fate

HkJ,

I think you’ll find most cx guys who choose to stay have accepted their fate and many consider 4 days in the east after most flights ‘normal’ and some even enjoying the stays now.. sadly this is feedback I’ve gotten as of late which is sad to see stockholm so deeply set in. On the operational front little has changed for crew in easing restrictions and with hk 7s to be a closed loop in November still, it’s doubtful more will change anytime soon.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 02:05
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Honestly, I think most have become acquiescent slaves. Any new burden will be dutifully accepted. Thankfully this pilot mindset/condition is generally isolated in HK. But I do feel for those that cannot leave. And extreme contempt for management that knows this is so, and grinds them and their families like pack mules.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 04:56
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Silence in these situations usually means something big is coming.

They went pretty quiet just before pos18 was forced on us.

The rumour I keep hearing is that cx is being sold off and GH wont be welcome at the new CCCX.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 05:09
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Just keep checking the seniority list and WhatsApp groups instead. There is a reason they are running daily recruiting sessions. It is clear to everyone that the time has come unless you are a SO trapped and unwanted goods by most other airlines.
Rie is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2022, 10:31
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I never understood why someone would become a radio operator in nowadays aviation business. If you are not with a major/legacy/unionized carrier, you need hours and experience as quickly as possible to master the jungle of international aviation. So the dumbest thing is to start your career as a radio operator - you just loose precious years.

May be the reasoning was different under the A scale, as there was a clear career path to a lot of gold and guys taking the radio operator position already had lots of valuable experience which anyways gave them options in case.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 10:55
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Originally Posted by 1201alarm View Post
I never understood why someone would become a radio operator in nowadays aviation business. If you are not with a major/legacy/unionized carrier, you need hours and experience as quickly as possible to master the jungle of international aviation. So the dumbest thing is to start your career as a radio operator - you just loose precious years.

May be the reasoning was different under the A scale, as there was a clear career path to a lot of gold and guys taking the radio operator position already had lots of valuable experience which anyways gave them options in case.
Why? At the time I joined many people wanted a career with a major airline that wasn't at a LCC. Cathay was a career airline where one could grow and end up on decent money with quality of life even If you had to step through the hoops to start. Times changed, many of the COS18 SO's have no intention to remain at Cathay. Some I fly with have used the pandemic to boost their non-aviation careers and will end up stepping away from CX/HK/Aviation completely. Spending years as a SO with no real future has gotten many bent out of shape as well.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 12:45
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Many have questioned, shouted, nagged at CX about there CoS etc. for many many moons (pprune about CX thousand of pages) BUT there are still here..nothing has been done, never will.. Never had a strike (CX pilot too professional for that), unlike the flight attendant, I think they got a better deal. we just negiotiate and hope the union will help. The pilots did nothing just sat there like a spolit child, the management kept churning out CoS like self covid tests. Most people at CX accepted CoS (grumble for a few weeks, stiff uppper lip etc) will never walk away., some will stay and moan (like a $3 lady of the night) , cadets got the worst deal.. useless license and hours, dont really fly the plane just monitor endless hours...not far from as a Emirates airline FIrst class "shower attendants. Nothing will happen, if you dont do anything, I think the opportunity to do anything has gone a long time ago, what left at CX is like the shops in Hong Kong.. gone to the dogs. Just let it be... and move on. USA, Middle east and Europe.. good hunting.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 23:37
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What's up is despair, despondency, having given up and resigned to one's fate.

Those who are left have sunk to a level past any hope. So no point to complain anymore. This is the state of mind of cathay's pilots who are still there. And the exodus continues unabated.

What was done by cathay top management (with approval of the board) cannot be fixed. It gives me great pleasure to see the utter failure of the morally bankrupt. It would be a shame if they could succeed in existing after ruining the lives of their best assets.
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 00:08
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Just to touch on a post above about SO’s being trapped, it seems that the only ones trapped are cadets or those who joined with minimum hours. I know of a fair few (20+) SO’s who have resigned and left for jobs back home/in the US if they’re Aussie.

It has been suspiciously quiet here of late but does makes sense considering nothing of note has changed and the wheels keep turning…
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 01:13
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Those that have had enough and been able to leave, have left. The rest that stayed all have one thing in common. They all have an exit plan and a contractors mind set. If a trip isn't worth doing, they call sick. Everyone is using those sick days as discretionary leave. No loyalty, no favours, just a mindset of "if it suits me, I will work". Once they get to their individual goal, they resign and move on. It will be like this for years to come, until the HK govt open up and allow normality. That's the first step, and the CCCP do the same is the second! But we can see that this isn't happening for a long time yet. So the bleeding won't stop!
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 09:40
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Jj696 you clearly are not a CX pilot.

We never sat there and did nothing. Sure our hands were tied by the lack employment laws and the fragmentation of our pilot group into different ‘entities’, but our fight was to retain what we had and we tried. My CoS never changed in 20 years, CoS 08 was chosen by those who wanted it and CoS18 was imposed on all of us. When that happened, no one sat there and just took it as you assume. What we did, and have continued to do is leave. Including our Dragonair brothers who had no choice to go, CX has lost over 1600 pilots in 2 years. Quite a feet by management when you think about it. We were told early on in the pandemic to have faith in our ‘senior leadership who were tasked with navigating us through this pandemic’. What I have seen is many valuable people leaving, to the point where it is too late now. If we had any faith in management then, it is certainly all gone now.

There is a lot more who will go when housing runs out at the end of the year, for many guys and girls here it’s taken the last 2 years to get their ducks in a row, HK is a difficult place to “just leave”, it takes time and effort. There is clearly many still here who think they could be worse off, CX pilots have always suffered from being institutionalised but even the most brainwashed are starting to realise that there is more to life than being locked up, Covid tested, controlled and separated from their families.
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Old 6th Aug 2022, 15:34
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Originally Posted by Rie View Post
Why? At the time I joined many people wanted a career with a major airline that wasn't at a LCC. Cathay was a career airline where one could grow and end up on decent money with quality of life even If you had to step through the hoops to start. Times changed, many of the COS18 SO's have no intention to remain at Cathay. Some I fly with have used the pandemic to boost their non-aviation careers and will end up stepping away from CX/HK/Aviation completely. Spending years as a SO with no real future has gotten many bent out of shape as well.
Didn't want to hit a nerve. Just stating an obvious basic rule of life: never make yourself dependant on an anonymous organisation up to the point you can't leave. You should always have an opportunity to leave if needed, in aviation this comes with filling up your experience bag with usefull experience every day you go to work.

It seems CX SO's are really in a bad position, the pilot market in the world is opening up, but they have no valuable flight hours after several years of working as a pilot. That is bad. Should have flown some commuter aircraft instead.

The second para stated the exception, it seems you have overread that.
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