Cathay Base Closures
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 152
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From: The Back of Beyond
Cathay Base Closures
Word on the street is that Cathay brutally closing all its bases could be their biggest own goal ever, in a long line of own goals and spectacular blunders.
That's a high bar to clear.
They've taken their 'control' issues to a new level, and with the potential of compulsory closed loops for all HKG crew, this could go down in the history books as perhaps the biggest stuff up ever. And maybe the end. As the operation won't work. Simple.
Well done.
I've got no skin in the game, but the base closures and Dragonair shafting... Wow. Let's see how this plays out.
That's a high bar to clear.
They've taken their 'control' issues to a new level, and with the potential of compulsory closed loops for all HKG crew, this could go down in the history books as perhaps the biggest stuff up ever. And maybe the end. As the operation won't work. Simple.
Well done.
I've got no skin in the game, but the base closures and Dragonair shafting... Wow. Let's see how this plays out.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Helsinki
No it’s not.
I can tell you from first hand that they’ve handled this base closure ops with a precision that I never could imagine Cx would be able to do. They know exactly what they’re doing, and won’t have any regrets. They managed to circumvent a seniority list and gotten rid of 300-400 of the highest paid pilots in the company. It’s a 100% win for Cx. Nobody is able to predict what will happen post covid but Cx knows the size they’ll be next year or the year after so everything is thought of.
You people keep obsessing with how they’ll regret and all that nonsense but they r still in business and paying your salaries so they must be doing something right.
p.s. I hate them as much as everyone but sometimes you just have to face facts.
I can tell you from first hand that they’ve handled this base closure ops with a precision that I never could imagine Cx would be able to do. They know exactly what they’re doing, and won’t have any regrets. They managed to circumvent a seniority list and gotten rid of 300-400 of the highest paid pilots in the company. It’s a 100% win for Cx. Nobody is able to predict what will happen post covid but Cx knows the size they’ll be next year or the year after so everything is thought of.
You people keep obsessing with how they’ll regret and all that nonsense but they r still in business and paying your salaries so they must be doing something right.
p.s. I hate them as much as everyone but sometimes you just have to face facts.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: nfa
Hmm...... yes!
If the Company had just gone after housing and left COS08 relatively untouched - or at least with rebound conditions - many would have put up with it and waited things out. Loss of housing along with medical and education cuts as part of the sign or resign POS18, 19, 20, 21, ........?.. it's Company policy after all. If people have to put up with total crap, they'll do it much more readily if they have family down the road, live in a nation that has Rule of Law and aren't treated like an inconvenience.
The exodus of their expat flight crew will only continue to increase. Cathay may be able to survive as another Chinese airline, maybe not. Time will tell.
If the Company had just gone after housing and left COS08 relatively untouched - or at least with rebound conditions - many would have put up with it and waited things out. Loss of housing along with medical and education cuts as part of the sign or resign POS18, 19, 20, 21, ........?.. it's Company policy after all. If people have to put up with total crap, they'll do it much more readily if they have family down the road, live in a nation that has Rule of Law and aren't treated like an inconvenience.
The exodus of their expat flight crew will only continue to increase. Cathay may be able to survive as another Chinese airline, maybe not. Time will tell.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
Likes: 20
From: HKG
gipilot
Glad they are paying 'your' salary.
Take a moment to consider the hundreds of pilots terminated off the bases. Many of these guys are too young to retire and too old to start again. They have families to support and mortgages to pay.
Take another moment to remember the people who are paying 'your' salary choose to ignore the contract they had which had terms and conditions for LIFO if over staffed.
Also take a moment to consider that the previous, breached and ignored contract did have Terms and Conditions. We now just have Policy, but I suspect you joined on POS18 and think keeping your job means that the company is 'doing something right'.
Glad they are paying 'your' salary.
Take a moment to consider the hundreds of pilots terminated off the bases. Many of these guys are too young to retire and too old to start again. They have families to support and mortgages to pay.
Take another moment to remember the people who are paying 'your' salary choose to ignore the contract they had which had terms and conditions for LIFO if over staffed.
Also take a moment to consider that the previous, breached and ignored contract did have Terms and Conditions. We now just have Policy, but I suspect you joined on POS18 and think keeping your job means that the company is 'doing something right'.
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 150
Likes: 20
From: HK
carolknows
Well they should have with the much inferior Cos18. I don't think they need to start caring about it anytime soon anyway. We are definitely not "right sized" and won't be for many more months with this cnut of a puppet government and its travel restrictions. They are still under pressure to employ the few hundred KA guys too. When we finally become "right sized" and they start having a real retention problem, then just improve the contract again.
Well they should have with the much inferior Cos18. I don't think they need to start caring about it anytime soon anyway. We are definitely not "right sized" and won't be for many more months with this cnut of a puppet government and its travel restrictions. They are still under pressure to employ the few hundred KA guys too. When we finally become "right sized" and they start having a real retention problem, then just improve the contract again.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: In the Auzzie outback
Bokpiel
And there it is, the future of working in Aviation.
Have too many employees? Continue reducing the contract till they leave and the company has enough employees for the job.
Don't have enough employees? Slightly increase the contract to attract more.
And pilots and cabin crew will now live in this world where they are now being paid as little as possible deemed by market forces(people coming or going).
Other airlines will see if this is a successful way to run a business and follow suite.
Is Aviation finished?
And there it is, the future of working in Aviation.
Have too many employees? Continue reducing the contract till they leave and the company has enough employees for the job.
Don't have enough employees? Slightly increase the contract to attract more.
And pilots and cabin crew will now live in this world where they are now being paid as little as possible deemed by market forces(people coming or going).
Other airlines will see if this is a successful way to run a business and follow suite.
Is Aviation finished?
Joined: Dec 2020
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 573
Likes: 296
From: https://youtube.com/watch?v=P8pihdksUHk&si=t_GX3ubmBvZ2CDgB
Do you really want you and your family in China? There will be a huge bust up soon. Sooner than we think I suspect. No? Then why did they pull out of Afganistan?
Treat their stupidity as a blessing in disguise.
Treat their stupidity as a blessing in disguise.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 152
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From: The Back of Beyond
True gulliBell, but did the fuel hedge debacle finish off Cathay? No. Will the base closures, the resultant forced closed loop, and therefore loss of cargo revenue. Maybe. Maybe.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
From: Asia
The fuel hedge debacle did put the company into a decline that it will never be able to escape. Our fearless leaders pissed away 32 billion HKD on their idiotic gamble, do you think the company could use that money right about now? That's 32 months at our current burn rate.
No one has ever apologized for wiping out decades of profits with their amateur move, it doesn't even get mentioned... ever.
No one has ever apologized for wiping out decades of profits with their amateur move, it doesn't even get mentioned... ever.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 461
Likes: 129
From: Bottom of the Harbour
The best part is that they are cash rich now, more than pre COVID thanks to the HKSAR.
After all the previous excuses on why that can’t pay bonuses, how many decades will they milk out of this one?🤣
But just watch the chief commercial officer(or is it chief commercial service delivery and help our customer)and his salary next year, Hughesy is still doing okay…last FY he still punched out a meagre 10M in a year they posted one of their biggest losses.
After all the previous excuses on why that can’t pay bonuses, how many decades will they milk out of this one?🤣
But just watch the chief commercial officer(or is it chief commercial service delivery and help our customer)and his salary next year, Hughesy is still doing okay…last FY he still punched out a meagre 10M in a year they posted one of their biggest losses.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 405
Likes: 3
From: The Cesspit
carolknows
I guess your question is did management predict the 30+ resignations a month?
If they didn’t then these resignations are just a bonus to the company. Pilots are volunteering to enter closed loops but are being denied as they only have x amount of weeks until turning 55 and management refuse to extend them by even one week in order to complete a loop.
We’ll know when we’ve reached the point when the voluntary attrition is starting to hurt the company. It’ll be when the forced attrition stops.
I guess your question is did management predict the 30+ resignations a month?
If they didn’t then these resignations are just a bonus to the company. Pilots are volunteering to enter closed loops but are being denied as they only have x amount of weeks until turning 55 and management refuse to extend them by even one week in order to complete a loop.
We’ll know when we’ve reached the point when the voluntary attrition is starting to hurt the company. It’ll be when the forced attrition stops.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: here
Flying Clog
That's just wishful thinking. They are closing the bases one by one, knowing the full consequences. They also know many will leave when the grandfathered housing runs out.
They don't want us. Get over it.
That's just wishful thinking. They are closing the bases one by one, knowing the full consequences. They also know many will leave when the grandfathered housing runs out.
They don't want us. Get over it.
