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HKExpress further pay cut

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

HKExpress further pay cut

Old 9th May 2021, 12:13
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Moon
Posts: 6
I could not agree more

So, let's pay the expats twice the money the locals get, ohhhh no, let's pay them three times as much, and give them our wives and sisters!

I do agree sometimes being an expat sucks! but it was our option, no one pointed a gun at us to move to a different country and we are welcome to leave at any time. If you are still there is because you like it, or going back is a worse option, companies know that and they DO take advantage. It is called globalization and free market. Or we don't like it when we suffer from it, but we love it when thanks to it we can get a cheap latte...
And if I remember correctly HK is not known for its friendly labor laws, so one has to ask, "why are you still there, mate?"
AusTronaut is offline  
Old 9th May 2021, 15:05
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Earth Orbit
Posts: 48
Jnr380

Well there’s a thought. Do you now wish that you weren’t as snobby for not learning the language of the country that supported you all those years?
Or was it: if you speak English, you’re above everyone that doesn’t!
Angel 8 is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 00:26
  #43 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by AusTronaut View Post
HKD17.4k, who? and for what? an FO with less that 1.5kTT for living in his own country?
That’s not total time. There are ex CX guys there who have probably 4-5000hrs on that money. They just have turboprop not jet experience.
You seem like you have been through some bad stuff in your responses. Did HK screw you in the pandemic?
Rie is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 00:28
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 103
The biggest trap in working for CX was the fact that they always had the opportunity to hire from any part of the world they choose. It was never a problem in the 80's, 90's or even the 00's...but now they have concluded that the experience and value of the expat pilots is no longer needed, you have the result of COS18 (and more to come no doubt...). If you work for an American airline, they can only hire Americans. You at least can't have your career undermined by low paid foreigners. CX is now a dead-end for any expat that fondly remembers how it once was. There is no possible reason for a westerner to commit them and their families to this company. It is time to leave if you can...
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Old 10th May 2021, 01:50
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 51
Posts: 233
There's the door.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 02:07
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Here and Everywhere
Posts: 185
Angel 8

I never said anything about being speaking English means you’re above anyone else. It’s not only about learning the language but also visa requirements.

If their pay is cut, to make it unliveable, they can’t exactly ask the government for financial support or subsidised housing.

If they decide to change jobs, then they’ll need to find an employer who will sponsor their visa and most positions (depending on your qualifications and experience) may require the ability to read and write Canto/Mandarin.

If they can start their own businesses to sustain them, then good on them.
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Old 10th May 2021, 02:41
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,325
Back in the old days, CX pilots came from a fairly small range of countries with Britain and Australia well represented. Americans less so due to relations with communist China. It was sometimes described as an old colonial club, and membership was hard to obtain. With the "A" scale they could afford to very fussy about who they took and if your face didn't fit then you weren't accepted. If you got in then it was a career airline and you stayed until retirement.

Airlines in the Middle East couldn't be so choosey as even though the money was good, the location and lifestyle weren't so desirable. Gulf Air and Saudi Arabian needed to have a much longer list of acceptable countries in order to attract the talent they needed.

CX has simply joined the list of airlines you can go to if you can't get a decent job at home. When air travel returns it may another contract job, similar to Turkish or Vietnam, if the airline survives as an independent entity.
krismiler is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 02:54
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Bonvoy Marriott
Posts: 162
even back then for the British, Irish, Australian, New Zealand, American, German, French, Dutch, Belgian pilots CX wasn’t their first choice. It might have been a decent option, but hardly ever a first choice..

but then again, this thread was about HKE...
SaulGoodman is online now  
Old 10th May 2021, 08:34
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Moon
Posts: 6
As I said, it's all a matter of perspective. And if you run the numbers, getting paid for doing nothing is quite a good deal!
So as long as CX keeps all this "fat" they will lose money, not my money, the HK gov money. And where did that money come from? And who is getting the salaries?
Once again, let's not lose sight of it. Getting paid to stay at home when local people have to work to earn far less. Just saying
AusTronaut is offline  
Old 10th May 2021, 11:43
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Palm Springs
Posts: 3
Nice analysis Krismiler, but you went off track a little bit.
Back in the old days CX ONLY hired from British Commonwealth nations which number 54.
And you had to be white.
Americans from the United States were not less so hired due to US relations with Commie China. They were simply NOT hired because of perceived cultural difference in attitude to flying. Same with Canadians because management thought that they were too much like Americans. I can understand that, they sound the same on the R/T.
It took a major fleet expansion and a shortage of pilots for management to scratch their heads to come up with a solution. It took a senior management pilot - ex RAF - who trained in Canada under the NATO pilot training plan to testify that the RCAF was set up by the RAF .Hence the same training ideology and culture as the other commonwealth nations air forces which were set up by the RAF. Thus the door opened to Canadians.
Boers from SA were excluded after some were hired. CX then mandated that a British passport was required from SA. If your grandfather was born in the UK - you are entitled to A UK passport.
CX also exclusively only hired ex-military to the tune of 95% of the pilots on strength. The average age of hire was 35 years of age reflecting several military tours of flying. So CX was not even a consideration for pilots with a civilian background. For the very few non ex military, you had to be very exceptional to be hired.
For ex-military, it was the ONLY place to go after the air force where you were paid according to your previous experience and you jumped into the RHS of a wide body immediately. The alternative was to join another airline at the bottom of the seniority list and be paid the same as 20 year old new joiners and fly puddle jumpers.
After 3 years in CX my after tax salary was greater than the after tax salary of all senior pilots in the rest of the world baring management pilots. A-scale : Superior working conditions , pension plan and benefits to every other airline except Swissair, and we know what happened to them.
So CX was not just another airline you could go to if you couldn’t get a decent job at home. It was the ONLY airline to go to as an ex airforce pilot from the British Commonwealth to get ahead in life and to have a very rewarding career after serving the crown.
Little wonder that CX could pick and choose from filing cabinets chock full of applications from ex Air Force pilots. At one point there were enough Ex Red Arrows to make up 3 teams. I suspect that the same holds true for ex Snowbirds from Canada. Applications from those who trained in the civilian world were for the most part : ignored.
My, how times have changed!
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Old 10th May 2021, 12:30
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: YVR
Posts: 16
cool story, i joined with 250 hours and we are now on the same contract so that must hurt your ex airforce ego
by the way, what does all this have to do with HK express pay cuts?
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Old 10th May 2021, 12:55
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Moon
Posts: 6
Well it has to do, cause when the company does not value the experience anymore, and low time pilots join, or pilots with shady credential, was it UO that had a french gentleman as an examiner who was not even a captain to begin with? Then of course they can lower the contract, where are you going to go with your 250 hours? or a logbook full of "Parker 52" time?
Do you see the connection or you are still need more hours?
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Old 10th May 2021, 13:58
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Jungle
Posts: 559
Curry Lamb

The Uber driver taking you to the airport earns more than that.
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Old 10th May 2021, 14:12
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Anvya
Posts: 7
The passenger pays more for the Uber than for the ticket . So can’t complain .
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Old 10th May 2021, 14:42
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 433
You think Co. cares about the diffrence between highly exprience ex airforce and 250hrs ?."We assume the risk and we are insured anyways".
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Old 10th May 2021, 22:39
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Utopia
Posts: 699
So glad I left this clown company back in 2008. 4.5 years was enough. Cathay Pathetic was an average experience, Hong Kong was a good experience, leaving Cathay was an excellent experience. I wish the best of luck to all pilots in Hong Kong, I still have a lot of old friends at CX (HK express is after my time) - they deserve better.
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Old 11th May 2021, 04:50
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Great White North of the 49th
Posts: 74
ascalehero

Most of the posts are similarly off topic, so what? Sorry your base is closing in Vancouver but no need to crap on him for making a good point. Sheesh 🙄
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Old 11th May 2021, 15:11
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 727
kittywon: I joined CX in the early 1980s when the fleet was only 17 aircraft. At the time the policy was to ideally hire pilots who were at least 30 and up to 40 years.
Now this meant that one had to have had an earlier career either civilian or military thus although there was a heavy bias of ex-service pilots the vast majority of them came from other airlines which they had joined after service - very few came directly to CX from the squadron.

A more accurate observation would be that CX exploited the various pools of aircrew available from numerous airline failures. The seniority list reads like a "whos who" of airline failures. There was one American skipper Roger S but he had worked for BahamasAir which was a Swire owned company. The Australian pilots strike yielded many many highly experienced pilots then in '89 in Canada both CP and Wardair folded so the company again sought to exploit the pool of ready crews. Once the word got out in Canada that the gig wasn't too bad after all then the floodgates of applications started.

In the early days it was simply much easier to get the HK CAD to validate licences from the UK, Aus and NZ.

As the old saying used to go : " to qualify for CX you had to have had three previous airline careers or two ex wives to support!"
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Old 11th May 2021, 19:47
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 433
Superior working conditions , pension plan and benefits
And I guess it was a Swire contract.
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Old 11th May 2021, 20:19
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 37
HKD45k in HKG. How? Just how?

Originally Posted by krismiler View Post
Usual case of supply and demand, domestically China isn't too bad (...) CX will probably downsize into a regional operator with a few long haul routes(...) possible that Cathay could go out of business altogether, they have no domestic network to fall back on (...) and they lack the government backing (...0 Having Air China operating long haul flights from the city is a real stamp of authority.
Right on all accounts. There is zero love for CX in Beijing and the domestic mainland market is back in full force. Then again, CX immediate demise has been predicted many many times. The next few months should be very interesting.
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