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Work Visa renewals

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Work Visa renewals

Old 16th May 2021, 07:59
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 35
if both visa holders and locals have job, now the company has to make people redundant. The company should make those bisa holder redundant first. Your statement is based on a questionable decision made back in Oct. I know you would argue that dragon and cathay are two company. But don’t forget, there are CX locals being made redundant as well
doublelift is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 08:03
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 141
so are you saying that Cathay, when they decide to close Dragonair, should have sacked cx pilots on a visa and replaced them with locals/pr holders from Dragonair?
Oasis is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 08:10
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 35
No, but cathay itself should have sacked visa holder SO first, rather then the local SO. There are still cathay local boys out there with no job while visa holder SO still have a job. This should not have happened.
For dragonair, technically they are two companys. I have no problem with it
doublelift is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 08:22
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
Posts: 141
correct me if I’m wrong, but the initial sacking you meant was before the visa renewal issues came up, right?

it was not the job of cx to distinguish between visa holder and local/pr, before it became an issue.

could they have foreseen it? Perhaps they should have, or maybe they just didn’t care.

now we are in this mess, how to fix it? You can’t really..

cx has different hiring practices or preferences than dragon did, to force cx to take on dragon people seems wrong to me especially at the detriment of people already in cx.
Oasis is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 08:39
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 35
Look at how Singapore and other Chinese airline do in making people redundancy. Both have let expat go first rather than reverse seniority. Both airlines are politically sensitive enough and avoided a mess. Now CX again has created a problem, not affecting themselves but the whole hk aviation industry.

I personally don’t think CX can’t foresee this is coming. They have been get into the same trouble in international cadet back in early 2010s
doublelift is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 08:41
  #246 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 391
Politics and business ethos never on a level playing field. Purely politically, I favour jobs for the locals. Purely on business lines, I favour jobs for the more suited and talented. The two go head-to= head when you have too many foreigners and too many locals. It has been like that for decades in the Middle East. I know many who enjoyed the latter location for decades but most were aware that it would only last until the locals, simply outnumbered the foreign guests.

All of us pilots tend to develop loyalties very quickly and enjoy getting into the team spirit. When flying for a foreign airline in a foreign country on a RV/work-permit the team spirit and desire to "belong" is very misguided and doomed to transition rather than permanency.

Very sad and even moreso when it is time to go but nothing to go back to.
slowjet is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 08:59
  #247 (permalink)  
Rie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 202
I am all for what Oasis is suggesting. Why should an employed worker suffer and be fired just so a Local can fill the position. When it comes to redundancies then yes follow the list and out the Visa holders before the PR then the Chinese locals. What will happen in June hopefully follows this method. It is more or less the seniority order anyway.

What the government is doing by stalling the visa renewals has no real point. They should either deny or approve and get on with their jobs. Leaving people in the dark is a horrible tactic.
Rie is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 09:10
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Never You Mind
Posts: 95
So work visas are not available so local jobs are protected... whilst this is not ideal for many CX employees I can at least see their point. But over the years CX have not maintained work visas for Based Pilots because apparently Based Crew did not need a work visa. These individuals that have no right to work in HK so how is it they do have the right to be taxed in HK? It's one or the other...
Mill Worker is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 10:24
  #249 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,262
If you were in your home country and qualified for a job but unemployed, how would you feel about a foreigner doing that job instead of you ? Most people would become suddenly nationalistic and want to replace the expats with locals.

In some airlines, expats are there only on a temporary basis and they know it, with a five year contract renewable on "if required" terms. This has suited some people who only wanted a retirement job, or to get some jet time and move on. Until a few years ago CX was a career airline where you expected to stay until retirement, it was highly profitable and there weren't enough locals to fill the seats. Now there is a massive downturn with a greater percentage of local pilots than ever before, conditions have been on a downward slide for years and the idea of a family life in Hong Kong while working for CX has become far less attractive.

Unfortunately it's now reached the stage where having an exit plan is essential and it will need to involve a few years of not flying. Alternative means of making a living need to be looked into, along with accommodation and children's schooling. Having a "to do" list if the worse happens next month would be a sensible move.
krismiler is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 11:40
  #250 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 3
bring me out of misery ... but what’s happening in June? Have I missed any comms other than the ones reminding of the ever changing govt restrictions?
Hkgdownthetoilet is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 11:43
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 484
Mill Worker

That had v little to do with CX and a whole lot to do with the sham of a communist plutocracy that we call a government.
Globocnik is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 15:37
  #252 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: usa
Posts: 18
To be honest. I think in the grand scheme of things what’s happening with this VIsa problem is nil significant. 300-400 “dragon local pilots” got fired. I can tell you 1/3 did not even pass the CX interview intiallly that’s why they went to dragon. The other 2/3. Will find a job very soon as many will be leaving because of this POS18.
WeelardPassord is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 19:42
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 272
The company knows very well what the immigration department has decided re visa renewals and issues. They are using this to shed the non-PR based and HKG pilots. Just another example of lying by our bosses. How can one make an informed decision on VSS without all the facts? Disgusting but expected mistreatment.
controlledrest is offline  
Old 16th May 2021, 20:36
  #254 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 12
WeelardPassord

Really!? Where do you get this numbers from? I can say 2/3 did even pass KA initial test and that’s why they went to CX.

KA is “safer” than CX, according to LOSA. PERIOD!
852pilot is offline  
Old 17th May 2021, 07:31
  #255 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Eden Valley
Posts: 1,869
WeelardPassord

I trust you mean Local & PR?

KA was the better airline option for highly experienced pilots who could upgrade quickly. Even now without a job, KA was the better option as they are far wealthier and more experienced than if they’d taken the CX path with slow command upgrades. Pilots with previous airbus experience could upgrade in a year and be check and training by their third year in the company- about the time a CX pilot moves into the RHS from doing whatever an SO does?

Local pilots too. They were put into the RHS from day one. It was brutal with MPL. Yet they’ve coped and are well positioned with whatever eventuates. Local KA F/O’s are well ready for command with whatever comes from the ashes of HK.

I actually feel sorry for any CX pilot who feels a superiority which your post indicates- because you may be poorly prepared if dumped onto the aviation trash heap.
Gnadenburg is online now  
Old 17th May 2021, 21:19
  #256 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Honkers
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
so are you saying that Cathay, when they decide to close Dragonair, should have sacked cx pilots on a visa and replaced them with locals/pr holders from Dragonair?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the real issue is Cathay made a lot of people redundant, the vast majority of whom were PRs. However, the job was not made redundant, the routes and assets were simply painted green like the old British empire with their colonies. I don't think anyone can justify from a business or an immigration standpoint that retraining a 777 pilot (especially a NonPR) and put them on an ex KA 321 flying an ex KA route when there is a "readily available workforce" makes sense. Getting immigration on side seems to be their easiest way of getting their old jobs back, the pilots on work visas at other airlines are just collateral unfortunately.

Leaving the immigration politics aside, let's imagine CX sacking all the Captains saying they weren't needed anymore but at the same time they were going to upgrade half the FOs to fill the gap in the left hand seat, that's pretty much what's happening here. Now if all this happened in my home country I'd be outraged, but then again the politicians there have at least some accountability to the general public.
skankhunt42 is offline  
Old 19th May 2021, 04:19
  #257 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: lagos
Posts: 843
Can get visa if marry a Chinese ?
pfvspnf is offline  
Old 19th May 2021, 08:35
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 421
pfvspnf

You get a non permanent HKID. No asterisk.

CodyBlade is offline  
Old 19th May 2021, 09:37
  #259 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Could be wrong or it might have changed as it's been a number of years, but I don't think this is correct. From simply being married to a Hong Kong Citizen/PR Holder you get nothing other than a dependant visa. Then after the 7 years of presence/residing in Hong Kong you can apply like anyone else for PR. You are right that you still wouldn't get the asterisk.

I'm not sure how helpful a dependants visa would be given the current predicament? Every indication seems to be that the gov have indicated preference must be given to those holding PR?

LLLQNH is offline  
Old 19th May 2021, 10:56
  #260 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Rabbit Hutch
Posts: 153
All you need LLLQNH is a visa that allows you to work. A dependant visa allows that. There is one pilot exKA taken on by GBA for their first course starting 7th June who has such a visa.
Dragon Pacific is offline  

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