Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

CoS 21

Old 17th Nov 2020, 00:36
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
Posts: 78
A lot of other airlines will have the same applications with their HR departments at the moment. When things change and eventually they will, experience will follow the money or at least places offering a reasonable lifestyle/family balance.
What is then left are the applications nobody is fighting over.
The two words mentioned above are prescient.
From a distance is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 01:16
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 1
I hope you are right and other airlines will put pressure on that package, but I doubt it.
Plus not all airlines are available for certain passport holders

It's over, pilot is now officially a middle-low income profession, for good.
Sam Ting Wong is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 01:40
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 183
A preview of POS23
The FUB is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 03:09
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 371
HKE COS21 allows Greater Bay Airlines to reduce their pilot expenses by matching it. Well done CX, own goal there!
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 04:17
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Gerloz
Posts: 550
No they won’t match it. They’ll just pitch it slightly above.
Globocnik is online now  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 04:30
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: planet earth
Posts: 63
On the bright side, at least we will know what our POS will look like after it has been 'varied and amended from time to time.'
doolay is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 04:51
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 352
Yes - Above is just the basic salary. Once they start flying again there is extra pay from the first hour. 70 hours a months is about 50000 HKD extra. So basically ones flying again the whole package reduced by about 12 percent for the top captain. Fo's might be a bit different. The problem is they are not flying now so the reduction is more like 40 percent as the guaranteed 50 hours is gone plus a reduction in the basic.
volare_737 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 05:42
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Vietnam
Posts: 61
Even when flying does start, when you go on leave or get sick, your back to this unsustainable basic salary.

Ecam321 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 05:47
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 352
True - and you still have to deduct Tax from that !!!!
volare_737 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 06:08
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 697

UberCX - paid by the hour (maybe)
Flex88 is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 06:24
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
Sam Ting Wong

Highly unlikely the last lcc that offered 18k a year in the UK was swamped with 320 qualified crews applying
AllWobbly is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 06:26
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 125
btw staff in the rice noodle restaurant I frequent in tst earn 18k a month. Best bit is no simulator or medical and the food is better than CX/HKE
AllWobbly is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 06:38
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 322
Sim instructing must be the best gig in town now.
Avinthenews is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 15:10
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Earth
Posts: 6
Not locals (or anybody else for that matter) who will be struggling to keep their marriage, ensure a better education other than the incoming national education for their children, increased financial stresses and coupled depression, struggle to get preflight and postflight rest in much more compressed living conditions and the huge detriment to income if they are not able to operate in all manors of mental and physical states. Nobody except for a few in 2018-19 signed up for this, and bar a psychopathic ladder climber, forcing a person to sign something with a gun held to their temple is nothing to be proud of.

The 'living' wage takes on a whole new meaning with safety ramifications that were clearly not factored into any of these cuts. A highly safety-sensitive job where massive financial penalties for missing certain duties whether UF or changes to the opaque roster is shocking, to say the least, and thus the higher likelihood of a major accident/incident /reduction in reporting is a very reasonable expectation.

Just like some political parties, the experiment has previously been run and the results were less than optimal. The decision-makers have not experienced your job for a second and other than a spreadsheet they are wholly unqualified to form opinions on your profession. Sadly a spreadsheet and insurance statistics are all that matter now.

The news of higher up's taking menial pay cuts for a rather short time provides the smoking gun evidence that either the CX Group is not in any imminent danger of collapse after receiving 27b in your tax dollars - increased to a total 39b bailout- with their silent new government investors or it's rapidly nearing the edge of a precipice and they want to fatten the top at the expense of putting the bottom on life support (pun and run-on sentence intended).

I believe what has happened, and the extent to which it did, is unwarranted and you all deserve better protections and respect than this.

While many were voicing their opinions on the inept CX Groups' slow response to the pandemic they have actually been busy since March bubbling up a toxic brew from an old recipe specifically crafted to hinder you and reward them. How ya like them apples!... Only time will tell how successful it was.

It's now time for you to take a page from their cookbook. Do your job and nothing more. Be proud and professional. Make your plan. Be smart. Get your research and networking going. Update your CV and get your life into a position where you can act as soon as the opportunity presents itself because it will! Most importantly, don't be afraid to take a measured risk because good things only come through change.

The safety and aircrew culture at many other airlines will be benefiting at the expense of CX in 12-24 months.
The100thmeridian is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 18:59
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: china
Age: 51
Posts: 88
Expect HKE to be recruiting to cover the ex ka NEOs whenever they arrive.

I remember being rostered $50000 overtime in KA and being pis$ed off for not being called off that last standby to make it 70k.How covid has being managements dream .

Are ex senior KA pilots going to be prioritised for hke Captain recruitment, training positions and maybe a few rated FOs?

Last edited by kahaha; 17th Nov 2020 at 19:12.
kahaha is offline  
Old 17th Nov 2020, 21:41
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 71

Chunks is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 03:25
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 100
Another sad pilot trying to justify the T &C of the past in today’s world. Since the 1990s there has been a gradual decline in pay across the board, blame the LCC, blame the travelling public, whatever.

The HKE CN package is $128k a month for 70 hrs, can someone put up an Aussie LCC or European LCC for comparison? I looked at the Norwegian package for the 787 a couple of years ago and it was ugly. Way worse than what HKE is paying for a A320 skipper. In this neck of the woods the HKE package is better than the Vietnam airlines or Cebu contract jobs.

Or better still pull apart a 2020 China contract. The days of big money while doing nothing are sadly over. You get paid when you work.

Go back to Microsoft flight sim in mommy’s basement or put up a 70 hrs a month package that’s better. As a contract pilot I’d be happy to see it.
Pickuptruck is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 03:51
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 112

Your last line defines all that is wrong with our industry, and why it has reached this point. You say "as a contract pilot i'd be happy to see it". Well, CX was never a contract airline, but now that the management have realised that people like you are willing to work for minimal wage, now we are all "contract" airlines in HK. The reality is that $128K a month is only possible with an exhausting month of work, and that isn't sustainable in the long run (and especially not over a career). Further, when you take into account all the financial concerns of an expat, that $128K (especially in HK) will barely keep pace with the ongoing needs of life, and aging. You however seem to be accepting of such a package. Your life will reflect that perspective.
mngmt mole is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 03:58
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 112
Frank W. Abagnale

That is because it is a generic Cos 21 to be applied to all group airlines. Next step will be to freely move pilots between the three airlines as and when and where required.
GMEDX is offline  
Old 18th Nov 2020, 04:36
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wan Chai
Posts: 277
No it isn't. Both HKE and HKA have always had SO payscales. It was for an HNA program of bringing in local cadets which I am not sure saw the light of day. I am guessing it is kept there incase cadets ever make their way in.
Rie is offline  

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