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HOLD ON TO YOUR UNDERPANTS !!

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

HOLD ON TO YOUR UNDERPANTS !!

Old 7th Sep 2020, 02:14
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
........Phiisophical claptrap removed.....
The central tenets of my post apply Marxism to personal preferences and desired behaviors. This notion that CX can simply afford to keep paying 3500 pilots and well over ten thousand flight attendants reflect unrealistic views of finance. I argue that those stem from leftist academia upon our youth.

If you want to dispute those assertions, feel free, but don’t just chuck a spear and run away.
What a load of crap, can you provide any evidence that your so called "leftist academia" believe such balderdash? No, I thought so, more likely just a reflection of your far rightish claptrap beliefs.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 02:17
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 103
STW. There is a difference between "hoping to not get laid off"...and understanding that at certain times it is necessary to protect the value of the career itself. You are aware of that of course.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 02:22
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Accepting to be laid off to preserve the value of the career.. haha, brilliant :-)))
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 02:27
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 144
Airline pilots never cease to amaze me with their rw capitalist beliefs, the cognitive dissonance is astounding. We have a situation where the airlines are bleeding shitloads of money with long term consequences and cxorist believes in a union leftist FOFO principal. Nowhere in the commercial world would that stand, not in finance, law, accounting or, shit, anywhere but a trade union workshop floor style, workplace.

The likes of cxorist want all the rw claptrap low taxes etc while insisting on the privileges of a tradesperson.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 02:39
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 103
I don't think even you are that thick STW. If the company could force pay cuts through (which we all know would take years to recoup...if ever) to subsidize unneeded crew, the value of the career would be correspondingly reduced, most likely permanently. It's not about the "individual" career that I was referring to, but the overall value of the career of pilot itself (such as Fedex FO's making over $50K usd /mo...yes, that is an FO). You of course know exactly what I was referring to....but you seem to prefer to argue for the sake of it.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 02:45
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by exfocx View Post
Airline pilots never cease to amaze me with their rw capitalist beliefs, the cognitive dissonance is astounding. We have a situation where the airlines are bleeding shitloads of money with long term consequences and cxorist believes in a union leftist FOFO principal. Nowhere in the commercial world would that stand, not in finance, law, accounting or, shit, anywhere but a trade union workshop floor style, workplace.

The likes of cxorist want all the rw claptrap low taxes etc while insisting on the privileges of a tradesperson.
Couldn't agree more. The airline is bleeding billions, and has hundreds if not over a 1000 pilots too many. Therefore, furlough the required number, as per the contract. That is nothing to do with "union workshop style", and everything to do with what is written in the contract (otherwise, why bother with any contract at all?).
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 03:30
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Couldn't agree more. The airline is bleeding billions, and has hundreds if not over a 1000 pilots too many. Therefore, furlough the required number, as per the contract. That is nothing to do with "union workshop style", and everything to do with what is written in the contract (otherwise, why bother with any contract at all?).
I agree - but how long for do you think CX has a 1000 pilots to many? Please not that I am not arguing with you, I am just asking a question. Yes, they have too many pilots now, but somewhere in 2021 some travel will start, very slowly though. 2022/3 I think we will be busy (that is just my opinion).
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 04:18
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Accepting to be laid off to preserve the value of the career.. haha, brilliant :-)))
That’s exactly right STW! If CX breaks the LIFO contracts it has now, why would anyone be so stupid as to believe them going forward? Even facing a furlough, pilots with an inkling of sense should want an employer with enough integrity to honor their contracts. Otherwise, why would anyone sign one of these contracts and want to work for CX? Perhaps CX thinks they can prey on the young, dumb, and inexperienced indefinitely. This thread certainly makes a case for that.

Last edited by cxorcist; 7th Sep 2020 at 04:33.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 04:22
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Originally Posted by exfocx View Post
The likes of cxorist want all the rw claptrap low taxes etc while insisting on the privileges of a tradesperson.
Are low taxes antithetical to being a tradesperson? Is honoring a contract and seniority antithetical to the “right wing”?

The public school system really did a number on you exfocx!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 04:32
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
But how is it stupid to hope not getting laid-off ? And why should Cathay aspire to be " an airline where a true pilot career is possible" ( aka grandfathering expensive expats)? In your philosophy, isn't it all only about making money and balance sheets?

In my opinion there is a major flaw in your argument. On the one hand you propose a free capitalist market without "socialist" restrictions, and on the other hand you ask for protection of your own position. But the two concepts don't go together. If you reject categorically "leftist" political views, as you have repeatedly, you need to accept this goes both ways. If the table turns, then Smith's invisible hand, that capitalists love so much, this time might form a fist and hit you where it hurts. And no, I certainly don't hope for that, I have the same contract as you after all.
Is it a socialist tenet that contracts be respected and a capitalist tenet that contracts be broken? Quite the opposite imo. Capitalists sign contracts with their skilled labor to secure their services over the long term. Socialists don’t need to do this. The government determines wages, benefits, changes, etc.

Autocrats far prefer socialism to true capitalism because, for them, it’s all about controlling the people (laborers). Capitalism within an open economy gives free movement to labor, which is why corporations sign long term contracts to secure its labor.

You public school propogandized really, really need to put your thinking caps on...
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 09:26
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
Are low taxes antithetical to being a tradesperson? Is honoring a contract and seniority antithetical to the “right wing”?

The public school system really did a number on you exfocx!
You call it a contract, everywhere else it's called an award, like all trades / low-semi - skilled work etc. Tell me which profession like Law, Accounting, Engineering, Finance etc where you have a mass contract? No one in any other PROFESSIONAL field would get that. They would look at the revenue you generate (as a lawyer / accountant etc) and in your circumstances the revenue of a 15 yr CA compared to a 5 yr CA is the same. Then in that case the most expensive is gone. You talk to any employee somewhere like BHP / RIO and see if the engineers or hydrologists are made redundant on LIFO.

Other than for pilots there are is no SENORITY. Management will decide who goes and who stays and LIFO.......lololol..... they've never heard of it.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 11:07
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 346
Lol - some pilots always think there are more special than the rest of the world !!!!!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 11:25
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
Lol - some pilots always think there are more special than the rest of the world !!!!!
If you could use the correct grammar, maybe all of us could understand what you are saying. By the look of it, you would fit the COS18 profile perfectly! Get that CV in ASAP!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 11:49
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: australia
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
If you could use the correct grammar, maybe all of us could understand what you are saying. By the look of it, you would fit the COS18 profile perfectly! Get that CV in ASAP!
Really? Chances are Volare 737 speaks more than one language, so he may have made an error in grammar, or he just missed a spelling mistake from thinking to typing, which you see a lot. Now, how many languages do you speak or write?


Btw, I do think flying is different for a number of reasons (seniority), but it just shits me to tears when I see rw pilots who take what is an organised labour position when it suits them.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:01
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
I really like it when they demand a bail out by the government

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 7th Sep 2020 at 12:30.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:04
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by exfocx View Post
but it just shits me to tears when I see rw pilots who take what is an organised labour position when it suits them.
I see you also really excelled at school.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:11
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 346
Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
If you could use the correct grammar, maybe all of us could understand what you are saying. By the look of it, you would fit the COS18 profile perfectly! Get that CV in ASAP!
Sorry Man !!! Some of us might not be so serious to even check what we are writing !!! I will try to get to your level one day !!!!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:14
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 53
Posts: 0
Talking

Originally Posted by Memorylapse View Post
I see you also really excelled at school.
Nobody in here excelled at school, You wouldn't be in this line of work if you had :-))
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:15
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by volare_737 View Post
Sorry Man !!! Some of us might not be so serious to even check what we are writing !!! I will try to get to your level one day !!!!
You could try, but good luck! They really like people who don't take things serious on these COS18 contracts, you would fit in well. How does that saying go again... You pay peanuts, expect to get... Oh dear can't remember the rest, but anyway!
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:18
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Egoli
Posts: 346
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Nobody in here excelled at school, You wouldn't be in this line of work if you had.
Exactly !!! Some of those guys on here should get a real job and then talk !!!!
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