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No need for concessions

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No need for concessions

Old 6th Jun 2020, 02:47
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Join Date: Mar 2015
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No need for concessions

CX Group reports loss of HK$4.5 billon 1/4 of this calendar year.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...-combined-hk45

At the end of March they reported they had HK$20 billon in liquidity. They then raised another HK$5.5 billon selling some old 777s.

So if we are losing HK1.125 billon per month we have enough liquidity to last 22 months before calling on Swire or Qatar to provide additional liquidity or selling further assets.

As a signifiant proportion of our pay is only paid if we fly (hourly duty pay), we have already made big enough concessions, let alone those who have salary reductions of 20% or 50%. Any further requests by the company are unwarranted. There is even less need for long term concessions. And yes, I do know the company will love the opportunity to stick it to use.

Last edited by controlledrest; 7th Jun 2020 at 04:07.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 03:26
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Hear hear!

To be fair I could countenance more temporary concessions, let’s face it, this is the most serious crisis to face aviation in our lifetimes. However retaining their entire workforce (with an eye to taking full advantage of the eventual recovery) whilst looking for permanent concessions would indeed be an opportunistic corporate money grab.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 05:22
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Fuel hedging losses....

2014 HK$3.7B
2015 HK$8.4B
2016 HK$8.4B
2017 HK$6.3B
2018 HK$1.4B
2019 HK$100M

(Google search....caveat emptor)
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 06:11
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Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
CX Group reports loss of HK$4.5 billon 1/4 of this calendar year.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...-combined-hk45

At the end of March they reported they had HK$20 billon in liquidity. They then raised another HK$5.5 billon selling some old 777s.

So if we are losing HK1.125 billon per month we have enough liquidity to last 22 months before calling on Swire or Qatar to provide additional liquidity or selling further assets.

As a signifiant proportion of our salaries is only paid if we fly, we have already made big enough concessions, let alone those who have salary reductions of 20% or 50%. Any further requests by the company are unwarranted. There is even less need for long term concessions. And yes, I do know the company will love the opportunity to stick it to use.
2019 annual report- operating expenses 105,000 million HK$. Revenue this year? Not much.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 07:23
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Much of this 'loss' is a book loss, not a cash loss, so the liquidity position is even better. No reason whatsoever for concessions. Google Forbes article, things aren't aren't as bad as one would think.
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 08:27
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I'm astonished............. do you REALLY think that's the case? that the airline isn't going to turn the screws until you scream???? CX wasn't a brilliant investment pre-covid - right now, and with the developing political rucus with the USA it look even sicker.

You're also likely to be looking at people pulling the strings who know what the other Chinese Airlines have as T&C - they're going to compare & contrast................ You have absolutely no leverage here - if CX went bust it wouldn't be noticed - the others airlines would just step in
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 11:11
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Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
As a signifiant proportion of our salaries is only paid if we fly,
WTF?
Do you even work for CX? If you're POS18, how is it you have an opinion?
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Old 6th Jun 2020, 16:49
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Originally Posted by Will IB Fayed View Post
WTF?
Do you even work for CX? If you're POS18, how is it you have an opinion?
I was thinking the same... Not significant at all. We aren’t cabin crew.
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 04:11
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
I'm astonished............. do you REALLY think that's the case? that the airline isn't going to turn the screws until you scream????
No, I REALLY didn't say that. I REALLY believe that the company will stick it to us. I also REALLY believe that in CX's case there isn't a compelling financial reason for us to be shafted. It doesn't matter what other airlines pay, with seniority most of us are stuck where we are. CX has the liquidity to ride this out without screwing us over.
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 04:15
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Originally Posted by Bokpiel View Post
I was thinking the same... Not significant at all. We aren’t cabin crew.
For those of us with families in HKG, the Hourly Duty Pay is significant.

Don't forget we were also screwed over for 13th, the profit sharing scheme is a joke and regardless of record profits in past years we haven't received a profit share and most of us have given SLS.
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 15:21
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It can be safely said that the company will apply the 13th month in the same way they do the profit sharing. In other words, nothing more than a laughable sentence in our COS.
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Old 7th Jun 2020, 20:43
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La La La La

Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
No, I REALLY didn't say that. I REALLY believe that the company will stick it to us. I also REALLY believe that in CX's case there isn't a compelling financial reason for us to be shafted. It doesn't matter what other airlines pay, with seniority most of us are stuck where we are. CX has the liquidity to ride this out without screwing us over.
" CX has the liquidity to ride this out without screwing us over."

What planet are you living on ? Certainly NOT the one named reality !!!
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 00:28
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Originally Posted by Flex88 View Post
" CX has the liquidity to ride this out without screwing us over."

What planet are you living on ? Certainly NOT the one named reality !!!
My opinion is CX as a group has expanded too quickly and at the wrong time. I think it will be a straight forward but stark choice job losses or a new contract.

Last edited by AllWobbly; 8th Jun 2020 at 14:03.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:20
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Looks like CX's window of opportunity to screw its employees is narrowing quickly...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/07/stoc...lose-news.html
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 13:59
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Originally Posted by mngmt mole View Post
Looks like CX's window of opportunity to screw its employees is narrowing quickly...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/07/stoc...lose-news.html
The stock market is currently only chasing emotions during this pandemic. It has actually been a long time since it reflected the actual ecobomy...
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 16:10
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The stock market doesn't "reflect" the "real economy". It looks ahead approx 6 months.... Therefore, it's telling you that things are getting better as we go forward.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 01:33
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No need for concessions?

The problem isn't the need for them or not, it's whether CX can get away with forcing us to take them. And unless you believe the job market is hot at the moment, then yes, they can.
When they pull a BA and dismiss everyone with 24 hours to sign POS18 (or an even POS-er 20), what do you think most will do?

In fact, standby for incoming... trading has halted this morning.
This storm is only starting, and we'll all pay for it for the rest of our careers.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 01:45
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Cash from Quatar?
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 03:26
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Air China, most likely.
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Old 9th Jun 2020, 03:47
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Originally Posted by Yonosoy Marinero View Post
No need for concessions?

The problem isn't the need for them or not, it's whether CX can get away with forcing us to take them. And unless you believe the job market is hot at the moment, then yes, they can.
When they pull a BA and dismiss everyone with 24 hours to sign POS18 (or an even POS-er 20), what do you think most will do?

In fact, standby for incoming... trading has halted this morning.
This storm is only starting, and we'll all pay for it for the rest of our careers.
Exactly.

”Need” and “Want” have been interchangeable verbs for years on both sides of the industrial table. For years each side has been able to industrially counter the other side’s wants.

I’m honestly out of ideas to how the pilots will counter management’s wants this time. I suspect the nil all draw deadlock is about to be broken.
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