Profitable 2019. Where is our full 13th month?
And herewego you remind me of a naive optimist. And I sincerely hope it’s not here we go again. Still if you’re proved right and we’re proved wrong then it’s happy days. Is it not ? Except that you’ve had leave on my coin. And frankly I don’t really begrudge you that. SLS always had to be a personal choice. And a lot of us have made it and should be left alone to live with that decision.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: the land of chocolate
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Herewego75, I hope you're right, I really do.
Having said that, this is without doubt the biggest challenge we have faced yet, as an airline.
There is no telling how long it will last, and what the resulting economical fallout will be, and this on the back of bad hedging, months of protests (which in all likely hood will return once this is over with.)
Having said that, this is without doubt the biggest challenge we have faced yet, as an airline.
There is no telling how long it will last, and what the resulting economical fallout will be, and this on the back of bad hedging, months of protests (which in all likely hood will return once this is over with.)
The muppets are even protesting now. Nimbyism at its best re. quarantine accom, and quasi memorial services for dear departed.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 641
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
remember the fight is not between us pilots
I bet the 747 guys are thinking how they can better this situation for themselves! (shame because they are working hard! They cry when they don't and now they cry when they do!)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
Posts: 677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree there should be transfers to the 747. No point in transferring junior guys who are about to be made redundant though.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Over There
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with ACMS, wake up! This is not over yet and things will get even worse before they get better.
Will CX survive? Sure, but what post COVID-19 will look like is the question.
Will CX survive? Sure, but what post COVID-19 will look like is the question.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 2019 Annual Discretionary Bonus is gone, that’s a given. But it hurts neither the company nor the HKAOA to ask what the extreme circumstances were to not pay a single Hong Kong based staff member a cent of the ADB.
The current difficulties shouldn’t be an excuse to stop communicating. If anything, the more open and honest the dialogue, the more likely the staff will assist the company when the company most needs it.
The current difficulties shouldn’t be an excuse to stop communicating. If anything, the more open and honest the dialogue, the more likely the staff will assist the company when the company most needs it.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The bonus is only "gone" because of attitudes like that. It's "gone" because the pilots are easily frightened, even to the point they won't insist on proper treatment under the terms of their actual contract. It's "gone" because the company can manufacture a crisis every year if they choose (the ADB was withheld BEFORE the virus panic became apparent). The management chose to once again take money from the one group who is easily manipulated, coerced and bullied. You are all affirming that point of view with your comments. CX has billions and billions of reserves, credit lines and political power (they actually made on average a MILLION AUS$ every single day of the year). They are not going out of business. They are however quietly laughing at the naivety and gullibility of their pilot workforce. I can't blame them.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 2019 Annual Discretionary Bonus is gone, that’s a given. But it hurts neither the company nor the HKAOA to ask what the extreme circumstances were to not pay a single Hong Kong based staff member a cent of the ADB.
The current difficulties shouldn’t be an excuse to stop communicating. If anything, the more open and honest the dialogue, the more likely the staff will assist the company when the company most needs it.
The current difficulties shouldn’t be an excuse to stop communicating. If anything, the more open and honest the dialogue, the more likely the staff will assist the company when the company most needs it.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere above the sea
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why don’t all you bed wetters get a grip.
CX, and airlines like it, will survive this. And in the medium to long term will benefit substantially.
The short term massive hit to revenue will be more than offset in the future as this event will cull all the marginal two bit players from the scene.
All the pesky competition driving yields down will be gone. More slots will be available and less competition will mean higher fares for when that pent up demand comes.
in the mean time, suppliers, ones that Swire doesn’t own, will be squeezed to give better deals. No doubt they’ll find plenty of airport hotels suffering, so it’ll be a great opportunity to shift us to those, where they haven’t already, at cut price rates. Be assured; This crisis will create plenty of opportunities.
If this airline actually shared the treasure in the good times, then everyone would be invested in helping out in the bad. But they’ve chosen a different course; when times are good, we’re told disaster lurks in the next quarter, and when times are bad- well disaster is here, so it’s take, take, take at every opportunity. Which is fine, just don’t ask for my help.
CX, and airlines like it, will survive this. And in the medium to long term will benefit substantially.
The short term massive hit to revenue will be more than offset in the future as this event will cull all the marginal two bit players from the scene.
All the pesky competition driving yields down will be gone. More slots will be available and less competition will mean higher fares for when that pent up demand comes.
in the mean time, suppliers, ones that Swire doesn’t own, will be squeezed to give better deals. No doubt they’ll find plenty of airport hotels suffering, so it’ll be a great opportunity to shift us to those, where they haven’t already, at cut price rates. Be assured; This crisis will create plenty of opportunities.
If this airline actually shared the treasure in the good times, then everyone would be invested in helping out in the bad. But they’ve chosen a different course; when times are good, we’re told disaster lurks in the next quarter, and when times are bad- well disaster is here, so it’s take, take, take at every opportunity. Which is fine, just don’t ask for my help.
Last edited by ron burgandy; 12th Mar 2020 at 19:47.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The CEO wrote on 4th December that the company “will NOT be paying a Discretionary Year-End bonus”. Zero. Nothing. To no-one. It wasn’t reduced. It wasn’t capped. (An ex-gratia payment doesn’t change this fact).
The company can only withhold the ADB completely in “extreme circumstances”. There is no harm in getting the company on record explaining what the extreme circumstances were on 4th December. In fact open and honest communication will only help the company when it needs help the most.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Progress. You are playing with semantics. Yes, you are technically correct. However, the $30000 discretionary payment conveniently represented a full months pay for the majority of employees. Of course, this meant that the pilots only received a fraction of their entitlement. I also know you are well aware of that fact. My statement stands.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Progress. You are playing with semantics. Yes, you are technically correct. However, the $30000 discretionary payment conveniently represented a full months pay for the majority of employees. Of course, this meant that the pilots only received a fraction of their entitlement. I also know you are well aware of that fact. My statement stands.
This is Hong Kong. Being technically correct (semantics as you call it) is very important if you’re involving lawyers and the courts. It actually works to our advantage that the company didn’t pay the ADB at all. There is quite a grey area where the company may cap or reduce the ADB. “Normally“, “satisfactory operating profit”, “as determined by the company“, “profitability is marginal”, etc.
However, there is only one scenario when the company can completely withhold it as they did. “In extreme circumstances”.
Why give management wriggle room when they’re cornered?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well reasoned. Still, we are both aware of what happened, and the pilots were the losers. CX made a very decent profit, and therefore cannot legitimately deny us our 13th month. The AOA needs to push hard on this.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: HKG
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When has the AOA ever pushed hard on anything?
The time for push back was when CX asked for us to take SLS. We should have said no, as we had already 'given' a month's pay when everyone else got the equivalent of 13th Month and we were pineappled yet again.
The time for push back was when CX asked for us to take SLS. We should have said no, as we had already 'given' a month's pay when everyone else got the equivalent of 13th Month and we were pineappled yet again.
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Asia
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why don’t all you bed wetters get a grip.
CX, and airlines like it, will survive this. And in the medium to long term will benefit substantially.
The short term massive hit to revenue will be more than offset in the future as this event will cull all the marginal two bit players from the scene.
All the pesky competition driving yields down will be gone. More slots will be available and less competition will mean higher fares for when that pent up demand comes.
in the mean time, suppliers, ones that Swire doesn’t own, will be squeezed to give better deals. No doubt they’ll find plenty of airport hotels suffering, so it’ll be a great opportunity to shift us to those, where they haven’t already, at cut price rates. Be assured; This crisis will create plenty of opportunities.
If this airline actually shared the treasure in the good times, then everyone would be invested in helping out in the bad. But they’ve chosen a different course; when times are good, we’re told disaster lurks in the next quarter, and when times are bad- well disaster is here, so it’s take, take, take at every opportunity. Which is fine, just don’t ask for my help.
CX, and airlines like it, will survive this. And in the medium to long term will benefit substantially.
The short term massive hit to revenue will be more than offset in the future as this event will cull all the marginal two bit players from the scene.
All the pesky competition driving yields down will be gone. More slots will be available and less competition will mean higher fares for when that pent up demand comes.
in the mean time, suppliers, ones that Swire doesn’t own, will be squeezed to give better deals. No doubt they’ll find plenty of airport hotels suffering, so it’ll be a great opportunity to shift us to those, where they haven’t already, at cut price rates. Be assured; This crisis will create plenty of opportunities.
If this airline actually shared the treasure in the good times, then everyone would be invested in helping out in the bad. But they’ve chosen a different course; when times are good, we’re told disaster lurks in the next quarter, and when times are bad- well disaster is here, so it’s take, take, take at every opportunity. Which is fine, just don’t ask for my help.
In Europe alone there’s 7 operators who will be gone by end of April with over a thousand aircrew out of work. And we’re arguing SLS......
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: www
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pickuptruck. Stop spreading "fake news". Delta is NOT speaking of Ch11. They are one of the healthiest and strongest airlines in the industry. What they did say is that it is such an outlying event that they feel the Govt needs to assist the industry (are you listening HK Govt?). The world has lost its collective mind, and the travel industry is the worst affected. The US Govt will help the airlines. I should add that Delta has said they will probably lay off employees. CX might need to wake up to the same economic fact. CX will probably never be the same airline again. I can see that clearly just looking at my March schedule. It certainly doesn't need the current employees it has. Hard truth, but the truth nonetheless.
