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Training Bond

Old 5th Nov 2019, 10:16
  #1 (permalink)  
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Training Bond

Hi guys,
If cathay airways or cathay dragon hire NTR guys, is there any training bond for them?
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 20:03
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No training bond - only if you’re cadet trained by them. In the past nobody would even consider leaving Cathay, but that was 15+ years ago. Now lots of new joiners see the company as a stepping stone and nothing more. The company is nothing close to what it once was - the glamour and strength is long gone - decades of industrial disputes with all groups of employees have tainted the company on the international (and domestic) scenes.
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Old 6th Nov 2019, 23:09
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
No training bond - only if you’re cadet trained by them. In the past nobody would even consider leaving Cathay, but that was 15+ years ago. Now lots of new joiners see the company as a stepping stone and nothing more. The company is nothing close to what it once was - the glamour and strength is long gone - decades of industrial disputes with all groups of employees have tainted the company on the international (and domestic) scenes.
Hi klimax thank you for your reply, so basicly they can walkout the next day they passed line check?
or is there any contract agreemant between them?
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 01:33
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Just remember you don't get a type-rating as a second-officer....(or do you these days?)
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 02:50
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Originally Posted by chobo97 View Post

Hi klimax thank you for your reply, so basicly they can walkout the next day they passed line check?
or is there any contract agreemant between them?
SO entry pilots had a one year bond against them for the price of conversion. Direct Entry FOs do not have any bond, hence why many leave after training.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 04:13
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Originally Posted by RubberDogPoop View Post
Just remember you don't get a type-rating as a second-officer....(or do you these days?)
Correct - no P1 type rating for Second Officers, which means as a Second Officer you will not be gaining any relevant experience for most other airlines to consider you until you have upgraded to FO. In effect you are really stuck with CX for 7yrs before you are marketable (5yrs SO, 2yrs FO to get your 1500hrs bum in seat time).

If you join as a direct entry Fo that's a different matter - no bond therefore free to leave when you want after gaining your type rating and experience.
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 05:11
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Originally Posted by petrichor View Post
Correct - no P1 type rating for Second Officers, which means as a Second Officer you will not be gaining any relevant experience for most other airlines to consider you until you have upgraded to FO. In effect you are really stuck with CX for 7yrs before you are marketable (5yrs SO, 2yrs FO to get your 1500hrs bum in seat time).

If you join as a direct entry Fo that's a different matter - no bond therefore free to leave when you want after gaining your type rating and experience.

not true, some SO’s have left to join ANA in Japan ( Air Japan ) as FO’s, they recognize P2x
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Old 7th Nov 2019, 08:02
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Originally Posted by petrichor View Post
Correct - no P1 type rating for Second Officers, which means as a Second Officer you will not be gaining any relevant experience for most other airlines to consider you until you have upgraded to FO. In effect you are really stuck with CX for 7yrs before you are marketable (5yrs SO, 2yrs FO to get your 1500hrs bum in seat time).

If you join as a direct entry Fo that's a different matter - no bond therefore free to leave when you want after gaining your type rating and experience.
No, I was asking about DEFO not SO. Because I heard now people going there just for type rating, so its true after all.
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Old 8th Nov 2019, 08:33
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Not only do you get the type rating, but you also get to see how bad an airline environment can be, which in turn will make you appreciate a real airline (after you left Cathay Pacific) when you join one... :-) Go for it - hook and fry them.
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 06:05
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Under HKG Law an employer can't bond their staff. CX has always written their own rules and done things their own way - until they get caught (Paris Base anyone?). So instead of bonding new joiners they invent things like the forgivable loan - cx loan you the money for the training you don't need in Aussi (unless you are a zero to hero cadet), then 'forgive' the loan after a few years (hoping to lock you into the bitch which is seniority). Looks like a bond, smells like a bond, walks like a bond, but we will call it a loan.
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 13:56
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Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
Under HKG Law an employer can't bond their staff. CX has always written their own rules and done things their own way - until they get caught (Paris Base anyone?). So instead of bonding new joiners they invent things like the forgivable loan - cx loan you the money for the training you don't need in Aussi (unless you are a zero to hero cadet), then 'forgive' the loan after a few years (hoping to lock you into the bitch which is seniority). Looks like a bond, smells like a bond, walks like a bond, but we will call it a loan.
Yes I know about the forgivable loan, they give you around 1,1mill HKD and after 6 years its become your money, but my question is, is this forgivable loan applicable for DEFO also?

Originally Posted by fe_fkf View Post
Forgivable Loan:
Each successful candidate will be provided with a loan in the amount of HK$1,100,000. Depending on their experience, each candidate will spend a different amount of this loan on the training course prior to joining Cathay Pacific. Once they join and successfully complete probation, Officers who did not use all of the money for training will be eligible to receive the balance in cash. The candidates will be streamed into three programmes:
• Those with minimal or no flying experience will undergo an ab-initio training programme, using up the entire HK$1,100,000.
• Those with some relevant flying experience will undergo an Advanced Entry training programme costing approximately HK$550,000 and the remaining HK$550,000 will be made available to the Officer.
• Those who only require Transition Training will spend approximately HK$220,000 and the remaining HK$880,000 ($111,127.98 CDN) will be made available to the Officer.

This forgivable loan will be deemed to have been repaid through 6 years of continuous service with Cathay Pacific.

Training Bond (oh forgivable loan) is taxable after the 6-years, 17% of 1,000,000hkd

Just googled about the package of an SO and found something about the "forgivable loan", the above figures might not be updated but there's just one thing i want someone to clarify, is the so called "forgivable loan" still exist in the current SO package and will it really be taxed!?
Are this post still applicable for SO? Or is it also applicable for DEFO?
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 14:09
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I am not sure that CX gives anyone any money anymore? Anyone in the know care to comment?
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Old 10th Nov 2019, 18:40
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Originally Posted by Air Profit View Post
I am not sure that CX gives anyone any money anymore? Anyone in the know care to comment?

Its all changed. No more bonus money given out for experience. No more Transition Training vrs Advanced entry. The old advanced entry course has now been cut down to only a week or so more than the “short course” which used to be the transition training course. Basically its a lets hire every low time pilot we can find, send them through a short course and make them take the easa atp exams and hope they pass, if not, find the next man up.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 11:13
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hyg
 
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Originally Posted by controlledrest View Post
Under HKG Law an employer can't bond their staff. CX has always written their own rules and done things their own way - until they get caught (Paris Base anyone?). So instead of bonding new joiners they invent things like the forgivable loan - cx loan you the money for the training you don't need in Aussi (unless you are a zero to hero cadet), then 'forgive' the loan after a few years (hoping to lock you into the bitch which is seniority). Looks like a bond, smells like a bond, walks like a bond, but we will call it a loan.
I don't think you got the bond part right. HKGFS has a bond for its pilots for 10 years. And CAD's staff who received any kind of flight training are bonded according to the licence they got as well. The case of not able to bond is only when the person who got the training was not hired as a staff yet, while the reason those gov guys can be bonded is that they receive a full salary during those training.
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