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Freighter S/O

Old 29th Jul 2019, 06:50
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Namibia
Age: 35
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Originally Posted by Apple Tree Yard View Post
And all of the above listed points are EXACTLY why there will never again be a stable career available at CX. It's an airline of inexperienced, naive mercenaries, constantly undermining themselves and being undermined by constant hiring of previously ineligible individuals to replace the high resignation rate of the currently employed. Nothing but an overworked and broken training system desperately trying to keep up with attrition. Tell me that is a recipe for a settled, lucrative and rewarding career? If you aren't making plans to escape this madhouse, you need your pulse checked.
I have a big question here that I cant manage to understand... there is "high resignation rate of the currently employed" but its takes 7 years to go from SO to FO... and no chances to become captain... which part is resigning?
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 10:41
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Hemisphere
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Originally Posted by CU-APA View Post
I have a big question here that I cant manage to understand... there is "high resignation rate of the currently employed" but its takes 7 years to go from SO to FO... and no chances to become captain... which part is resigning?
CU-APA, afaik pilots of all ranks are resigning, the delay in upgrading comes from CX hiring DEFO bypassing current SOs and the slow but steady transitioning from 1SO on longhauls to 2SO, increasing the need for SOs in the company, but reducing the need for FOs. Another factor is that the training resources are exhausted with the DEFO and also training captains to be trainers.

The reason above, the toxic culture, constant lies about upgrades and a lot of other things and living cost/ qualify are, just to name a few, some of the reasons why myself and a lot of other SOs resigned.

Lots of other, much better options out there at the moment.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 11:32
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
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The upgrade time from SO to JFO is currently about 4½ years. It's projected to go to somewhere near 7 years.
The tranche of pilots resigning are primarily senior FO's with marketable hours. There are some captains leaving too, as well as SO's.
More sectors are being planned with a CN/SFO/SO/SO compliment which is increasing the need for SO's, and decreasing the number of FO's to make up crew numbers.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 14:26
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
Completely fabricated.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 16:16
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: nfa
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Completely fabricated.
Nice comeback.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 21:32
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 550
Fabricated ??

Originally Posted by Cpt. Underpants View Post
The upgrade time from SO to JFO is currently about 4½ years. It's projected to go to somewhere near 7 years.
The tranche of pilots resigning are primarily senior FO's with marketable hours. There are some captains leaving too, as well as SO's.
More sectors are being planned with a CN/SFO/SO/SO compliment which is increasing the need for SO's, and decreasing the number of FO's to make up crew numbers.
STW would lead you to believe CX is Nirvana.. He is naive, at best.. Myself, I simply don't like seeing persons go broke slowly drip, drip, drip. If you decide to have a family, and have accepted POS18, this will hasten the pace..

All this "up to 7 years" as C Underpants indicates is speculative at best. No mention has been made of the addition of HK Express and its impact. My guess, this will extend upgrade times (they will offload routes to the cheaper airline) by xxx years and additionally radically change any "upgrade progression" BS CX and others have so far expounded !!

The gloves are off and CX is swinging. Enjoy.

#CXit
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 22:45
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Originally Posted by Flex88 View Post
STW would lead you to believe CX is Nirvana.. He is naive, at best.. Myself, I simply don't like seeing persons go broke slowly drip, drip, drip. If you decide to have a family, and have accepted POS18, this will hasten the pace..

All this "up to 7 years" as C Underpants indicates is speculative at best. No mention has been made of the addition of HK Express and its impact. My guess, this will extend upgrade times (they will offload routes to the cheaper airline) by xxx years and additionally radically change any "upgrade progression" BS CX and others have so far expounded !!

The gloves are off and CX is swinging. Enjoy.

#CXit
No, that’s incorrect. Maybe we need to bring Nick Rhodes back to explain it. HKE will actually decrease upgrade times as synergies make both airlines grow faster. It’s much the same as RA65. It definitely decreased time to command because many of those going to 65 are trainers. I’ve got some ocean front property and a bridge to sell you too! Pilots, on the whole, are so dumb. I’m just wishing I chose a different profession...
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 23:40
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Smoky City
Posts: 19
Ok this time I’m agreeing with STW. ‘Upgrade from SO to JFO is ‘projected’ to increase to seven years’ is a fabrication. The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years. Cannot be renewed or extended. Therefore upgrade will never exceed 5 years.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 23:47
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Originally Posted by CXDOG View Post
Ok this time I’m agreeing with STW. ‘Upgrade from SO to JFO is ‘projected’ to increase to seven years’ is a fabrication. The P2X rating is only valid for 5 years. Cannot be renewed or extended. Therefore upgrade will never exceed 5 years.
5 years?!?! Might as well become a doctor. You’d be into your second year of residency after 5 years. Or, as a lawyer in your third year of practice. Or, you could be making bunks, eating sandwiches, and occasionally getting to load the FMC at CX. Duh, it ain’t worth it!
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 00:02
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: The Twain
Posts: 75
CXDOG we’ve been through this before.

Yes the P2X rating was originally limited to 5 years, for good reasons by CAD. However it was asked at the time what could CX do if they wanted to extend that period.

The answer was to to upgrade to a P2 or P1 rating and fly the pilot as a relief co pilot on S/O pay. All refresher landings could be done in the simulator.

Whether that would be approved by the current CAD is a moot point
anxiao is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2019, 00:38
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
Folks, unfortunately you can't have a mass exodus and delayed promotion simultaneously.

You will have to stick with one doomsday scenario at a time I am afraid.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 01:10
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,821
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
Folks, unfortunately you can't have a mass exodus and delayed promotion simultaneously.

You will have to stick with one doomsday scenario at a time I am afraid.
Actually, that’s not quite true. If the fleet is getting smaller, an airline actually can have delayed promotion and large numbers of pilots leaving, especially when long haul flying uses 2 SOs. Ask yourself how many 777-300ERs are leaving the fleet... Answer: every single one on lease.

PS: I know who you are, and you’re not nearly as brilliant as you think.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 01:21
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
Sorry, I did not get the memo regarding the shrinking fleet.

So it is now mass exodus, delayed promotions, a shrinking fleet, HK Express taking over our routes, pos 18 for all, 2x S/o on long haul, Chinese marching in and the pollution killing us, correct?
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 01:39
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 30th Jul 2019 at 01:58.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 02:06
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 992
Folks, unfortunately you can't have a mass exodus and delayed promotion simultaneously.

You will have to stick with one doomsday scenario at a time I am afraid.
It seems like you have a hard time understanding complex situations with many moving parts.

When an airline does not grow, that reduces the number of promotions. Cathay is not growing. As someone already mentioned, many planes have left the fleet recently and continue to do so. 21 777s are leased and leaving to make room for the newer 777s.

Crewing complement has changed. 2SO long haul will be the norm on all long haul. That reduces the number of FOs required.

CMP has removed a lot of inefficiencies in rostering by hand. This has squeezed out more productivity out of the pilots we do have. Which has the effect of reducing all rank requirements.

All these measures plus the constant reduction of our benefits and pay have resulted in high resignation rates. This is offset by continuous recruitment and lowering of standards to try to minimise the impact. Are you seriously saying you have not seen the barrage of standards changes for all ranks?

You might want to take your own advise as well. You talk about contradicting signals. Here’s one, you can’t have so much smoke without a fire, yet post after post from you say the smoke is fake and there is no fire.

Your trolling is getting old and more desperate with every post. Keep it up please, it is quite entertaining and provides great opportunity to highlight the smoke.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 02:14
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
You are back paddling and just trying to
distract by personal insults. An easy sign of desperation.

I did not talk about growth, never. Cxorcist claimed falsely we are facing a shrinking fleet albeit the arrival of 40plus aircraft. Sure, some of the deliveries are replacements. Even if all of them would be, which they are not, this would not result in a shrinking fleet. Simply a false claim.

HKE will not grow significantly, the idea they are taking our routes is proposterous. Read the press statement. One 320 per year best case. HKE is of course a complementary business and insignificant in terms of fleet size and growth. Plus time will tell if they really are cheaper. As we speak they operate at a loss. Maybe they just bought it so nobody else could, who knows.

The idea of having a mass exodus and delayed promotions at the same time is absurd. Not with a constant or rather moderately growing fleet. We did not grow much for years now. Mathematical impossible.Interestingly you guys are very quick to point out upcoming retirements and a looming pilot shortage when it suits you. As I said, you can't have it all, even conspiracies have limits.

The long haul 2 x S/O impact is negligible. It will not happen overnight and only on very selected routes, if at all. Somehow reminds me of the 3 men long haul topic a few years back. Which was also very popular in here for a while..

But you know all that. Talking of smoke.. smoke and mirrors comes to mind reading your posts..

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 30th Jul 2019 at 02:56.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 02:57
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,821
CX had 100 aircraft in 2007. 12 years later it has 134. That’s a growth rate of less than 3% per annum. So let’s not pretend there is or will ever be substantial growth at CX. Arguments to the contrary based on orders simply lack historical context.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 03:02
  #58 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
You are back paddling and just trying to
distract by personal insults. An easy sign of desperation.

I did not talk about growth, never. Cxorcist claimed falsely we are facing a shrinking fleet albeit the arrival of 40plus aircraft. Sure, some of the deliveries are replacements. Even if all of them would be, which they are not, this would not result in a shrinking fleet. Simply a false claim.

HKE will not grow significantly, the idea they are taking our routes is proposterous. Read the press statement. One 320 per year best case. HKE is of course a complementary business and insignificant in terms of fleet size and growth. Plus time will tell if they really are cheaper. As we speak they operate at a loss. Maybe they just bought it so nobody else could, who knows.

The idea of having a mass exodus and delayed promotions at the same time is absurd. Not with a constant or rather moderately growing fleet. We did not grow much for years now. Mathematical impossible.Interestingly you guys are very quick to point out upcoming retirements and a looming pilot shortage when it suits you. As I said, you can't have it all, even conspiracies have limits.

The long haul 2 x S/O impact is negligible. It will not happen overnight and only on very selected routes, if at all. Somehow reminds me of the 3 men long haul topic a few years back. Which was also very popular in here for a while..

But you know all that. Talking of smoke.. smoke and mirrors comes to mind reading your posts..
You think HKE won’t take routes off CX? As the Qantas guys about Jetstar.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 03:05
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 51
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by cxorcist View Post
CX had 100 aircraft in 2007. 12 years later it has 134. That’s a growth rate of less than 3% per annum. So let’s not pretend there is or will ever be substantial growth at CX. Arguments to the contrary based on orders simply lack historical context.




I never claimed there would be. You claimed we are facing a shrinking fleet and that is simply false.


SOPS,

no idea. Maybe, maybe not, I was referring to the comments of our chairman until 2024. Beyond that I don't know. We had a similar discussion after the acquisition of Dragon, remember? The idea is to grow in all segments, if that is feasible or not time will tell. Premium/connecting traffic can't be easilyreplaced by HKE. And Quantas is doing quite well, don't they? LCC is of course a threat, but does it matter if that business is owned by cathay or somebody else? I don't think so. LCC are affecting all, except Cargo. So I don't see it as a particular or exclusive threat for Cathay, but in general? Sure.

Cxorcist,

I also never said becoming a pilot in 2019 is a great idea. I most certainly don't think it is. Yes, totally, by all means go to university instead and become a doctor or lawyer. But that is not really what this discussion is about, or is it? We can't make these choices nor should we pretend these options are on the table in the first place. They might for a selected few, the top 1-2% of their class, but for the rest it is the choice between lower hanging fruits..

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 30th Jul 2019 at 04:26.
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 05:00
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,821
The bottom line is that CX is a very bad deal for new joiners at this point. This is why we are scraping the very bottom of the barrel for “pilots”. Being an SO for 5 years is a sick joke. Waiting 13+++ years for command is even worse, especially considering the QOL in HK, specifically without a housing allowance. The whole situation is all kinds of wrong, which is why quite a large number of pilots have left and many more are sure to go. Is it catastrophic for CX? Apparently not. Very troubling and a new low? For sure!
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