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Upgrade out of seniority

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Upgrade out of seniority

Old 2nd Mar 2019, 20:12
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 12
Upgrade out of seniority

Apparently an ex Manchester based ex-dragon air captain who downgraded to f/o voluntarily and took a base in London is being offered an unadvertised captain slot in London.

Itís bad enough he stole a Cathay Pilotsí captains slot out of seniority once via the back door called dragon air. Now heís about to do it again.

If the GMA goes through with this, there will be more than just 777 FOs being sick to worry about!
Jackschitt is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 21:05
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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Seems like a clear violation on your contract. I suggest you grieve it. Take it to litigation if required. I am confident the UK courts would frown on such things.
DropKnee is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 23:53
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 94
Not a problem. The common seniority list will be announced shortly. He and others will then be plenty senior enough.
GMEDX is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2019, 23:54
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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You are better off litigating it yourself and not relying on the AOA. They can't seem to get anything right.

At least some base slots are being opened up.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 23:03
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
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Same pilot who was about to be demoted for incompetence ?
The FUB is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2019, 04:03
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by Jackschitt View Post
Apparently an ex Manchester based ex-dragon air captain who downgraded to f/o voluntarily and took a base in London is being offered an unadvertised captain slot in London.

Itís bad enough he stole a Cathay Pilotsí captains slot out of seniority once via the back door called dragon air. Now heís about to do it again.

If the GMA goes through with this, there will be more than just 777 FOs being sick to worry about!
This sounds very dubious to me. Manchester based initially, so a freighter jockey, now based in London ( LHR ) as an FO ( which fleet ? ) and no slots are at the moment available on either the jumbo or 777. I think this is a wind-up. If NOT, then a total breach of the basings agreement all based pilots currently operate to.
unitedabx is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2019, 06:26
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Join Date: May 2009
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Not to mention the latest Basings Update states downgrading to FO to take a slot is a strict no no.
betpump5 is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2019, 07:27
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by The FUB View Post
Same pilot who was about to be demoted for incompetence ?
Completely untrue 'The FUB'. I know this is a rumour network, but what you are saying is not correct. Please do not start spreading BS just to inflame the Pilots in CX. Everyone is looking for excuses to point fingers at each other at the moment, so what you are doing is very unhelpful......
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 19:38
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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A Lesson

In the content of this thread any sane person should see why joining CX should be a truly last resort. If it wasnít bad enough dealing with the amoral chimps that Swire promote to f##% up a potential gold mine, then you can rely on the little green eyed monsters from Aus/Can/France/anywhere else....(delete as appropriate) that have had their own moral compasses totally distorted by greed to screw you over as well. (Your fellow pilots by the way).

Stay away, this place is more toxic than Chernobyl.
Table For 1 is online now  
Old 5th Mar 2019, 01:31
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
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For whatever it’s worth, the guy in question is a stand-up chap and in no way one of the people who make this place toxic.
main_dog is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2019, 03:16
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: VHHH Ocean 2D
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So are you saying that the OP is correct in their story ? But it's ok because the guy is a "stand up chap"?

It's getting a little too cryptic here..
betpump5 is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2019, 11:45
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by main_dog View Post
For whatever itís worth, the guy in question is a stand-up chap and in no way one of the people who make this place toxic.
How many times can one person act completely against the seniority list and still remain a ďstand-up chapĒ?
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 14:25
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
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Originally Posted by betpump5 View Post
So are you saying that the OP is correct in their story ? But it's ok because the guy is a "stand up chap"?

It's getting a little too cryptic here..
Yes the story is correct. AoA Europe is involved as well, conveniently hiding the whole operation from the rest of the seniority list until the damage is done and a precedent has been set.
Whatís next ? All based FOís to get commands on the base out of seniority ?
BalloonBuster is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 15:24
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
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The AOA EUROPE president is pretty vocal on the HKAOA forums, so I am sure he will come clean about the issue and explain it all on the HKAOA forums soon....
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2019, 17:50
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
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The same guy who wrote on the forum "we are one pilot group" and "would like to see more co operation between the unions"?
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Old 6th Mar 2019, 22:34
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
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So what is the explanation for him taking a base out of seniority? Mitigating circumstances?
Oasis is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 02:36
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 183
I'm sure there are ex Paris CNs who would just at the chance to take a LHR 747 slot.

So why would this ex KA pilot be allowed to jump the queue?

And an upgrade would need to be completed with limited training resources
The FUB is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2019, 17:30
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: POINT NEMO
Posts: 52
This is a false rumour. It has been confirmed by the AOAOE Chairman.

I echo Shag Nasty's quote, "Please do not start spreading BS just to inflame the Pilots in CX. Everyone is looking for excuses to point fingers at each other at the moment, so what you are doing is very unhelpful."

corrigin is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2019, 09:08
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
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You might find with more specific questioning that the AOAE interpret there date of joining as there dragon start date not cx start date hence there belief not out of seniority, and seniority in UK is not part of seniority in hkg
His answers would probably be misleading and would need more detailed questioning, I would be very dubious about his answers and intentions.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 09:19
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by turnandburn View Post
You might find with more specific questioning that the AOAE interpret there date of joining as there dragon start date not cx start date hence there belief not out of seniority, and seniority in UK is not part of seniority in hkg
His answers would probably be misleading and would need more detailed questioning, I would be very dubious about his answers and intentions.
There is seniority on a base BUT for any vacancy it must be advertised for all pilots in HKG and elsewhere and awarded on DOJ. So in theory an NZ based pilot could apply for a UK slot using his DOJ seniority into CX ( not his NZ base seniority ). The question is which DOJ counts ? DOJ joining CX / DOJ joining KA or DOJ transferring to CX from KA ? Whatever DOJ the vacancy MUST be advertised. Also, there are no mitigating or compassionate circumstances allowed.
unitedabx is offline  

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