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Finally ... recognition

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Finally ... recognition

Old 20th Sep 2018, 16:13
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Finally ... recognition

Back in the good ol’ USA where a collective “WHO” resounds when asked which airline I work for. Now I’m happy to say .. no more!!
Cathay Pacific is world famous and the comments are now “ OH...CATHAY PACIFIC.. HAHA” what a bunch of dicks you guys are ... can’t even spell your own name!
I stand incredulous in total disbelief that this actually happened to a company of this (ex) stature. Well not really. I now see it more as a legacy of what they have become. A joke at best.Some things people just wont forget .. now instead of just acting completely stupid.. we have to advertise it too!!
Oh well at least we’re a world renowned joke now ... well done everyone.
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 20:53
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I believe we set the record for the largest fuel hedging loss in aviation history. So there's that to be proud of......
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 01:05
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Haha now you know what veterans at UA/CO have been through, 20 years of bad luck, stupidity and a company at war. Perhaps this most famous of mis-spells will mark the moment in CX struggles where things turn around. Maybe It's hard to read these boards and see how something so good went so wrong.

Last edited by Adambrau; 21st Sep 2018 at 01:06. Reason: typo
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 15:20
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Originally Posted by BlunderBus View Post
Back in the good ol’ USA where a collective “WHO” resounds when asked which airline I work for. Now I’m happy to say .. no more!!
Cathay Pacific is world famous and the comments are now “ OH...CATHAY PACIFIC.. HAHA” what a bunch of dicks you guys are ... can’t even spell your own name!
I stand incredulous in total disbelief that this actually happened to a company of this (ex) stature. Well not really. I now see it more as a legacy of what they have become. A joke at best.Some things people just wont forget .. now instead of just acting completely stupid.. we have to advertise it too!!
Oh well at least we’re a world renowned joke now ... well done everyone.
Yeh but they negotiated an absolute best lowest cost deal for paint jobs. Its all that matters...
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 18:31
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I can’t find anyone,and I know plenty, In high finance that actually believe this company, in the wake of nick leeson and wall street sub prime, took a multi billion uninsured one way bet on 6 years worth of gross income on the price of the worlds most volatile commodity. And I don’t believe it either.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 00:25
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Of course they didn’t that’s why no one was fired , Who knows how much they pay for fuel or who the intermediary third party is between the company and the fuel company . But you can bet it’s a Swire entity . That way you suck the profits from Cathay and fill the Swires coffers whilst at the same time crying poverty , charging the passengers a fuel excess and keeping the pesky pilots in line .
Cathay with much wringing of hands “ we would love to grant you all a pay rise ,but sadly with all the money lost from the fuel hedging there simply isn’t anything left in the kitty to give ‘“
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 01:22
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Right on the money Tea Time.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 03:09
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Don’t ya mean right on the money laundry ?
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 03:46
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No such thing as bad publicity. How much would it have cost to appear in all of these tv shows and web pages?
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 12:30
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Tea Time, you give them too much credit. I was of the same theory on the fuel hedge but a lot of digging has led me to believe they were hoodwinked by a bunch of sweet-talking investment bankers. It seems the hoodwinking required nothing more than some entertainment and stroking of egos. Who would have thunk it?
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 13:02
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The fuel,hedge is a 100% inside job...no doubt there!
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 03:24
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Makes things easy. Now I can answer "Kathy Who" with "the airline that spelled its name wrong on the plane."
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 00:25
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They’re making it so easy to leave now. Nothing to miss or look forward to anymore. The old loyal hands in every department being dumped like so much trash. The newbies hooked on a ‘litany of lies’ If I was asked to say something over that final handshake it would be....
”I’ll never look back”
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 01:24
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Agree BlunderBus.
Had a discussion with a young RQ the other day who said that the good thing about COS 18 was that it clearly showed the shine was off working here; and that there was no longer any hope of improvement to his HKPA or anything else. Instead, COS18 confirmed his suspicion that his current conditions were now doomed to deteriorate toward those in COS18. He no longer holds any illusion of improvements or lasting peace between the pilots and this management. He told me that it would now be foolish of him to not seek opportunities outside Hong Kong. Just as so many others have concluded to do.

In my mind I can’t help but wonder how much money the Company is willing to throw away by writing off the investments already made in training and developing such people. All in the hope of phantom savings that can be theoretically achieved by the ludicrous concept of replacing experienced pilots with scores of zero time, or third world, “talent” willing to work for HKA/HKE (low cost carrier) conditions.

No airline can truly succeed if it is to bear the cost of continuously turning over a large percentage of its pilot pool.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 02:00
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Well said raven11. My thoughts exactly.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 02:40
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Both my FO's, coming in from a European port the other day validated your comments. They were both accelerating their plans to leave, due the same conclusion: COS18 has confirmed that the only direction is now down, and their hopes for improvements to their own contracts had come to nothing. I suspect that there are many hundreds more who were sitting on the fence waiting for the outcome of negotiations. Ironically, a contract that didn't even involve them has probably told them more than their own negotiations would have. Time to Leave.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 03:14
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Originally Posted by VR-HFX View Post
Tea Time, you give them too much credit. I was of the same theory on the fuel hedge but a lot of digging has led me to believe they were hoodwinked by a bunch of sweet-talking investment bankers. It seems the hoodwinking required nothing more than some entertainment and stroking of egos. Who would have thunk it?
This. Cockup, not conspiracy...
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 05:34
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There are a number of threads at the moment which all touch on similar themes.

1.Swires have been told by their Beijing masters that they are out of Hong Kong within 10 years. Thats everything, airline, property, insurance, shipping, EVERYTHING. A blind eye will ( and has been turned ) to any efforts Swires make to bleed their entities dry before leaving. Merlin is here to oversee this handover.
2.CX/KA will merge and become the southern branch of Air China. Named simply "CATHAY" but will retain it's own AOC out of Hong Kong.
3. This new airline will be populated by local Hong Kong managers and pilots at local rates of pay. They are being postioned and recruited now.
4.Expats will wither on the vine and if any remain after the 10 years they will be offered local terms or shown the door. Just like the expats in the police were after 1997.
4.The CX product is being diluted to match the expectations of the mainland customers who dominate the bookings. Not quite no frills but certainly all Jackie Chan movies and noodle dinners. No need for flowers in C class toilets when most of the customers stand on the seats to pee.
5.With 1.5 billion passengers to tap into, competing with the Middle Eastern airlines shrinks into insignificance. The American carriers currently in the ascendance would kill to get 1% of this mainland business.

Result, a colonial company determined to bleed every last drop out of it's assets and employees before it is kicked out itself. Current pilots have a choice. Stay and turn the lights out when you go. Or leave now.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 06:30
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Originally Posted by unitedabx View Post
There are a number of threads at the moment which all touch on similar themes.

1.Swires have been told by their Beijing masters that they are out of Hong Kong within 10 years. Thats everything, airline, property, insurance, shipping, EVERYTHING. A blind eye will ( and has been turned ) to any efforts Swires make to bleed their entities dry before leaving. Merlin is here to oversee this handover.
2.CX/KA will merge and become the southern branch of Air China. Named simply "CATHAY" but will retain it's own AOC out of Hong Kong.
3. This new airline will be populated by local Hong Kong managers and pilots at local rates of pay. They are being postioned and recruited now.
4.Expats will wither on the vine and if any remain after the 10 years they will be offered local terms or shown the door. Just like the expats in the police were after 1997.
4.The CX product is being diluted to match the expectations of the mainland customers who dominate the bookings. Not quite no frills but certainly all Jackie Chan movies and noodle dinners. No need for flowers in C class toilets when most of the customers stand on the seats to pee.
5.With 1.5 billion passengers to tap into, competing with the Middle Eastern airlines shrinks into insignificance. The American carriers currently in the ascendance would kill to get 1% of this mainland business.

Result, a colonial company determined to bleed every last drop out of it's assets and employees before it is kicked out itself. Current pilots have a choice. Stay and turn the lights out when you go. Or leave now.

Finally, someone gets it. Thank you.
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Old 24th Sep 2018, 08:38
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Odd mix of rumours!

1. No, Swire have been allowed to expand property & coca cola interests in PRC, why would they be asked to leave HK?
2. Actually makes sense, but Air China would need to decide what to do with Shenzhen Airlines
3. Actually makes sense. The "Swire Princes" now being recruited as graduates are on very different terms to, say, 15 years ago
4. Has already happened in most other industries (banking/ property etc) in HK.
4. I think your view of PRC customers is a generation out of date
5. India is also a huge market, but apart from the LCC Indigo, everyone is losing money
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