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Scraping the barrel

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Scraping the barrel

Old 27th Aug 2018, 01:38
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Follow the money...

To CargoLux flying CX’s production -400Fs.
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Old 27th Aug 2018, 03:23
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Follow the money.

...to having to redo dozens of PC's due to missing medicals.... (a proper airline would have a system to ensure such a thing couldn't happen)
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Old 27th Aug 2018, 04:07
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Follow the money......

..... to the Cargo Cartel fines.
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Old 27th Aug 2018, 05:03
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Follow the money ......

Introduction of the 800F
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Old 27th Aug 2018, 05:19
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Follow the money ......

To having to re-do dozens of PCs due to the A340 sim not being signed off (a proper airline would have a system to ensure such a thing couldn't happen)
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Old 27th Aug 2018, 07:06
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Follow the money.


B-HUL and B-HUO now flying for Sky Gates cargo.
A company that started only because they could get their hands on these 2 jets in 2016.
​​​​​​Always good to create direct competition.

the classic
No money in freight.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 05:24
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The company doesn't give a crap about experience. The cheaper the better.

One day a CX aeroplane will crash. Blame will be placed on the pilots (anyone expect HKG CAD to have the slightest clue as to crash investigation).

The real cause will be the management who set the policy and the Check and Trainers who implement it. Foot stamping and letter writing only makes the C&Ts more culpable.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 06:18
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Heaven forbid the precious C+T’s do something proactive about it!

If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

What will it take to trigger some meaningful actions? I always wonder how comfortable they feel (if they feel anything at all about it) signing licences for candidates that have only just met the CAD requirements.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 08:32
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Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
Heaven forbid the precious C+T’s do something proactive about it!

If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

What will it take to trigger some meaningful actions? I always wonder how comfortable they feel (if they feel anything at all about it) signing licences for candidates that have only just met the CAD requirements.
I bet you haven't the balls to say that at your next renewal !

Ever heard the expression "all talk and no trousers ?"
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 08:44
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Right, it’s the check and trainers fault. It’s been my sad experience that those with the least LMF castigate others for not measuring up.

Knowing who the bad guys are is the first step in any confrontation. Unity is key. Circular firing squads are not helpful.

We must focus on presenting a united front while an unsustainable resignation rate is brought to bear.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 08:59
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Typical response.
Why don’t we just keep doing what we have been doing for the last 25yrs then, because that has really advanced our cause hasn’t it?
if we keep checking and training the lower cost replacements it will NEVER end.
That is why I am not a C+T at this mob.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 17:06
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Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
Typical response.
Why don’t we just keep doing what we have been doing for the last 25yrs then, because that has really advanced our cause hasn’t it?
if we keep checking and training the lower cost replacements it will NEVER end.
That is why I am not a C+T at this mob.
I notice you haven't answered my question. So I guess you are all talk and no trousers.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 23:52
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<United, I have heard that phrase before, it was applied to the C+T group after they wrote the Trainers letter and failed to follow up on it!
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 01:45
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Unitedabx
You need to pick up a history book. Captains and more so C&T are the leaders of the pilot group. What do you expect a SO to do to bring about a conclusion to negotiations? The impression you give me is that you are hoping those who depart CX will fix the problem for you.
The most successful contract ever negotiated in the airline world was the UA contract of 2000. Why, because the C&T stopped doing training and checking except for PC and line checks. The company was back at the table faster that you could eat a free cockpit sandwich.
Stop with the unity crap. No bold move by the above groups. No action will take place. Simple as that.
As is typical with CX pilots. We all want someone else to do the dirty work. We get what we deserve.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 06:07
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not in C&T. I was 10 years ago but left when I took a base. As far as I am aware the HKAOA has not asked for current C&T's to resign. There is a training upgrade ban but many members have ignored this and taken up positions. If the association directed it's members to resign with the strict understanding that once hostilities had ended everyone of the C&T team would be re-instated first then I am sure most would follow. Trouble is there is no such "direction" and certainly no guarantee that line captains would obey the re-instatement rules.
The pilot body is not united. Even the AOA members aren't in unison so why pick on the C&T's ?
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 06:18
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Because they have the biggest stick and the least to lose.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 06:36
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Originally Posted by Farman Biplane View Post
<United, I have heard that phrase before, it was applied to the C+T group after they wrote the Trainers letter and failed to follow up on it!
Did you write a letter and sign it ?
No you didn't. Truthfully, if you did state your opinions openly at your next PC the C&T'er would have more respect for you than all your snivelling on this site.
Grow a pair.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 06:41
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Originally Posted by DropKnee View Post
Unitedabx
You need to pick up a history book. Captains and more so C&T are the leaders of the pilot group. What do you expect a SO to do to bring about a conclusion to negotiations? The impression you give me is that you are hoping those who depart CX will fix the problem for you.
The most successful contract ever negotiated in the airline world was the UA contract of 2000. Why, because the C&T stopped doing training and checking except for PC and line checks. The company was back at the table faster that you could eat a free cockpit sandwich.
Stop with the unity crap. No bold move by the above groups. No action will take place. Simple as that.
As is typical with CX pilots. We all want someone else to do the dirty work. We get what we deserve.
You are quoting a different avaition world and by the way looked what happened to UA.
You are also very naieve. Captains and C&T'ers are NOT the leaders of the pilot group. In theory the President of the HKAOA is and in the past C&T'ers followed the guidance given by the AOA. There is no guidance these days so the C&T'ers do their own thing. In 2005, 98% of the C&T'ers were members of the AOA. Today, it is less than 10%.
I can tell from your posts that you haven't been in this industry very long and certainly not in Hong Kong. Open your eyes.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 08:14
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”but many members have ignored this and taken up positions.”

Maybe two..........
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 10:11
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I am sure it will have great effect whinging to a Star Chamber SSI that is doing my next PC!
Yet another part of the problem....
As you seem to be personalising this debate, I would suggest that as you are based, you may be somewhat removed from the realities of the majority of HK based aircrew that are all local hires.
No problem with my current pair thank you, they function quite well.
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