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Scraping the barrel

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Scraping the barrel

Old 30th Aug 2018, 14:44
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Originally Posted by unitedabx
You are quoting a different avaition world and by the way looked what happened to UA.
You are also very naieve. Captains and C&T'ers are NOT the leaders of the pilot group. In theory the President of the HKAOA is and in the past C&T'ers followed the guidance given by the AOA. There is no guidance these days so the C&T'ers do their own thing. In 2005, 98% of the C&T'ers were members of the AOA. Today, it is less than 10%.
I can tell from your posts that you haven't been in this industry very long and certainly not in Hong Kong. Open your eyes.
I have been in this industry for 29 years. If your waiting for the AOA to give you directions, you will be very disappointed. Each individual has to decide for themselves.
As far as UA is concerned, stick to the effectiveness of their job action. It was a success and done so without any guidance from ALPA.
If you all are going to just sit back and expect the other guy to do the heavy lifting for you. Than the CX pilots will soon find that they are the lowest paid WB pilots in the world. That is based on cost of living etc.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 15:21
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Originally Posted by DropKnee


I have been in this industry for 29 years. If your waiting for the AOA to give you directions, you will be very disappointed. Each individual has to decide for themselves.
As far as UA is concerned, stick to the effectiveness of their job action. It was a success and done so without any guidance from ALPA.
If you all are going to just sit back and expect the other guy to do the heavy lifting for you. Than the CX pilots will soon find that they are the lowest paid WB pilots in the world. That is based on cost of living etc.
Hmmm, RH seems to want to convince us all that we are grossly overpaid. Quite the joke isn't it? My Delta captain friend who is making $80K usd per month at the moment would be quite bemused by our CEO's comments. What a debacle this airline has become.
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 02:35
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80K USD/month???? utter bull****

Originally Posted by Air Profit
Hmmm, RH seems to want to convince us all that we are grossly overpaid. Quite the joke isn't it? My Delta captain friend who is making $80K usd per month at the moment would be quite bemused by our CEO's comments. What a debacle this airline has become.
80K USD/month???? utter bull****
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 04:54
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Ok, if you say so....
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 05:26
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I’d use some caution in trying to compare raw salary numbers across different countries or even different parts of the same country.

What you need to make in order to have a decent standard of living depends completely on where you live. Even in the US it might take a couple of hundred of thousand dollars to live in SFO at an equivalent standard of living to someone in La Crosse, WI who is making a quarter of that.

Which is is why many commute.

If you base and live in HKG that number is way huge.

Insanely enough — but not surprisingly — CX has been about as hostile as it could be toward commuters (and well below the privileges of many other majors—and even some regionals ) — as well as basings — which is the one aspect that enables some folks to keep working here. You can’t make this stuff up.

Stuff up ..... I guess that about says it all.

Last edited by Slasher1; 1st Sep 2018 at 05:51.
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 06:21
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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“The typical United Airlines Airline Pilot salary is $171,280. Airline Pilot salaries at United Airlines can range from $25,400 - $350,000. This estimate is based upon 20 United Airlines Airline Pilot salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods.9 Jul 2018”

top of scale goes goes a very long way in the US
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 17:50
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Checked in with a Delta friend this morning. Yes, some (not many to be fair, only very senior C and T) are making $80k some months. In fact, the number has been even higher in some cases. Regardless, does anyone here at CX doubt that we are now grossly underpaid, at ALL levels? Didn't think so.

This airline has stripped the value from our careers. This current negotiation will be the ONLY opportunity to rectify this. If we fail (and I mean 'we'), there will probably never be as good an opportunity. If you are planning on leaving, then please don't vote in such a way that you hurt those who will remain. Every one of us needs to appreciate that the only way to go through life is with integrity, loyalty and commitment.

We are far better than our adversaries in management, both professionally and personally. Don't let them destroy not only your career, but your integrity, self-worth and character. This IS the great battle of our time, and everyone needs to support the common good. We can't afford to lose this.

There will never be another opportunity to re-establish our worth, professional status and hopes for our careers and families. Is it not perhaps time we finally held a strike vote, and gave our association the nuclear option that has long been needed? Stand strong.

(ps, even 737 captains at Southwest are making $40K/mo usd in many cases).
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Old 1st Sep 2018, 18:03
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Originally Posted by controlledrest
The company doesn't give a crap about experience. The cheaper the better.

One day a CX aeroplane will crash. Blame will be placed on the pilots (anyone expect HKG CAD to have the slightest clue as to crash investigation).

The real cause will be the management who set the policy and the Check and Trainers who implement it. Foot stamping and letter writing only makes the C&Ts more culpable.
The rumour is the HKCAD accident investigation function is being removed and a new Air Accident Investigation Authorty with dedicated accident investigators employed, separated from HKCAD and run under the Transport and Housing Bureau.

Set up is this year.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 20:58
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Stumbled into this on YT : www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPJjw68RI2w go at 2'30'' and I was worried with R/T ability for a wide-body F/O. I can feel the pain for the captains having to endure such situations.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 22:58
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Originally Posted by BlunderBus
80K USD/month???? utter bull****
Not really, it's a temporary thing on the A350 due to work rules and pilots displaced for training sectors who can then pick up more overtime sectors to get displaced on. You get paid for a lot of flying you don't do with these legacy work rules. Delta pilots are in a (real) union unlike flight attendants and most other company employees.

From the sister Airline Pilot Central forums an American Airlines pilot comments:

You guys need to pull your head out of your proverbial a$s prior to section 6. Go ask a Delta A350 pilot. They have FOs crediting over 260 hours of pay credit for the month. Green slip. Green slip with conflict. Do the math. Apparently they have some captains that broke 100k in a month.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2602353-post32.html

Details of the Deltoid bidding techniques in this APC thread:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/d...-captains.html

U.S. mainline pilots are raking in the dough these days after the airline bankruptcies of a decade ago.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 23:28
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Work rules. So important.

Gotta love em.

For those who don't know you have no idea what you're missing.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 01:15
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You just hit the nail on the head CXex: almost none of the current CX pilots have worked for a real airline with REAL work rules. They for the most part have no idea what they are talking about. In fact, they don't even have a datum point in their experience to relate just how bad CX's work rules really are. That is the great tragedy of this airline: it has no base of experience inside of itself to advocate for proper working conditions because there is no understanding of what needs to be done to fix it. If CX pilots understood how much control US pilots have over their lives they would be in tears. Even pilots on a regional roster flying 737's manage 15+ days off a month, with easy commuting and flexible bidding that suits the pilot, not the company.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 01:47
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...."large sum of money"....? umm....thought we were talking about CX here Frank? (the "total abuse" bit was accurate however!)
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 02:40
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Originally Posted by BlunderBus
80K USD/month???? utter bull****
Well I'v been retired 18 months (DAL) but I did have a couple of $ 60,000 months in my last few years. Involved being available for short emergency call outs, trips that had canceled and then I flew over those same dates and got paid for both.Sometimes the flown trip at double time. We had other Premium also I just forget what it all was. In my last full year I made $525,000. FYI I enjoyed all 38 years but don't miss it, its somebody else's turn.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 03:37
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Geez Frank, lighten up. And it's not about me, i'll be gone soon enough. It IS about the 25-45yr olds that are at risk of wasting a good part of their careers chasing something that left long ago. An objective review of the past 20 years should tell anyone that there can never be stability or financial security working for the Swires. If you want an airline "career", then choose anything other than CX.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 07:20
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Straight out of deltas contract $370 an hour for the most senior widebody captains. Blocked for 75 a month.
exceptionally with penalties and double rates I can believe $60 k in a rare month but $80k ?!!!
Utter crap ... and that what my delta pals say too.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 08:01
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Blunder, you are making a fool of yourself (and not sure why you are so worked up about the subject?). Certain Delta Captains are making that amount, and more. You can believe it or not, but I know it to be fact. Find a different topic, as your absurd enmity against the subject is just plain odd.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 09:33
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Originally Posted by BlunderBus
Straight out of deltas contract $370 an hour for the most senior widebody captains. Blocked for 75 a month.
exceptionally with penalties and double rates I can believe $60 k in a rare month but $80k ?!!!
Utter crap ... and that what my delta pals say too.
Mr Blunder,
I decided to ask a friend that is still working the answer is yes to $ 80000. Here is how . Delta pilots have the ability to drop their full schedule and then pickup new trips . A few of the more contract savvy individuals on the A350 have done so and then picked up open double time trips filling the month that way. . The system is not without risk as you could end up with zero flying in your month but the A350 is a new aircraft at DAL and training is so backed up extra unfilled trips are available every day .
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 11:02
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Originally Posted by filejw

Mr Blunder,
I decided to ask a friend that is still working the answer is yes to $ 80000. Here is how . Delta pilots have the ability to drop their full schedule and then pickup new trips . A few of the more contract savvy individuals on the A350 have done so and then picked up open double time trips filling the month that way. . The system is not without risk as you could end up with zero flying in your month but the A350 is a new aircraft at DAL and training is so backed up extra unfilled trips are available every day .
Yes. But with the caveat that SOMEONE picks up the trips consistent with the work rules written. This can result in high pay while also driving high efficiency. Some scam aspects are possible, but coming to a solution is all a part of good negotiations.

Southwest is kinda similar kinda not but the key for all of them is an owned roster with rigs, paid reserve, and the ability to swap trips autonomously. And REAL work rules. Two way street.

Could be similar with a full up CMP with all modules. But it won’t be. Because the company would rather impose and hose. So it will see the natural result of min productivity at max cost. In a real system you have thousands of pilots helping solve your rostering problems in an incentive based environment with benefit to all. What CX will do is akin to a centrally planned economy which has failed every time it’s been attempted.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 23:26
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Originally Posted by Slasher1


...... the key for all of them is an owned roster with rigs, paid reserve, and the ability to swap trips autonomously. And REAL work rules. Two way street.

Could be similar with a full up CMP with all modules. But it won’t be. Because the company would rather impose and hose. So it will see the natural result of min productivity at max cost. In a real system you have thousands of pilots helping solve your rostering problems in an incentive based environment with benefit to all. What CX will do is akin to a centrally planned economy which has failed every time it’s been attempted.
100% correct. A full implementation with real rules is the best way to roster. It is how successful airlines do it. CX will only use their version as an automated pineapple insertion machine without any lube. CX know best.
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