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Letter from Greg Hughes (Service Delivery Mgr) to HKAOA

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Letter from Greg Hughes (Service Delivery Mgr) to HKAOA

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Old 17th Apr 2018, 00:11
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 506
Hyg

Well, well, well...no, I didn’t know this. But why am I not surprised? For the past 25 years, ever since the infamous “commitment days” in the early 90’s, and up to the non payment of the 13th month bonus to pilots this past December, it seems that the pilots have been singled out as unworthy of consideration in one form or another. Sad, but obviously true.

Case in point: I met my cabin crew recently in the hotel lobby of a regional outport. The FO and I arrived the previous night after a max duty day battling storms and Chinese ATC, with an integrated pattern through Hong Kong, culminating in a minimum rest period of 10 hours in the hotel...

The cabin crew informed us that they had been in the hotel for two nights, with 48 hours rest! Kind of says it all, doesn’t it?

Last edited by raven11; 17th Apr 2018 at 00:21.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 01:03
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
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And the reason the cabin crew get 48 hours is that ISD knows they wouldn't find anyone to do that flight if the girls got the same duty/rest config that we do.

Yet we continue to show up and fly the goddamn roster.

We truly are our own enemies.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 01:39
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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If you want the sweet, sweet T&C the cabin crew get - learn an Asian language fluently and apply. Or negotiate better.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 02:32
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Freehills View Post
If you want the sweet, sweet T&C the cabin crew get - learn an Asian language fluently and apply. Or negotiate better.

Free hills, We should not need to apply for the flight attendant job to expect to be treated equally...should we? And we should not expect to be endlessly singled out for exclusion when such things as discretionary bonuses are awarded...should we?

It goes without saying that it is time we negotiate better.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 02:45
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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The CC could say the same about HKAPA, or school allowances - they shouldn't have to apply to be pilots to expect to be treated equally either...

back to the GH letter. I agree there should be give and take. CX must give, and the pilots take. Or the exodus will continue
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 03:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 506
Freehills, that’s exactly what management have argued since commitment days...

Last edited by raven11; 17th Apr 2018 at 03:50.
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 05:16
  #47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by raven11 View Post
Freehills, thatís exactly what management have argued since commitment days...
honestly, the reason the cabin crew get all those is because they are willing to fight for their 'roster practices'....yes they have their equivalent of roster industrial agreement with the company, and they are willing to go all out to protect that agreement every time when the company tries anything fishy... rmb the sit out at the airport/cx carpark few years ago? that started when the company tried to f... with their roster practices, and they are willing to put on a gigantic show at the airport arrival hall, car park, causing the company to lock out the cabin crew who weren't working those days with JLLS security staff outside the crew channel, yes the company was that scared..... but what did we do when our roster practices was attacked, even under the current industry hype, we are still doing not really a lot....
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 09:29
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: in time anda space
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why do people keep insisting that the cabin crew get good rosters because of industrial pressure? Last strike they were on was 1992 or 1993 I think.

To misquote Bill Clinton - "it's the sickness rate stupid"

They simply call in sick - they called in sick for long day turnarounds so now they get paid for them. They called in sick for patterns with low allowances so now they get longer patterns.


All we need do is follow their example as OK4wire has already pointed out
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Old 17th Apr 2018, 16:54
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
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the cabin crew fight for their COS and good for them for doing so , Difference is they have a lot of public support , so the company has to be careful that they are not seen to be beating up pretty young things .
The company has cleverly painted us as overpaid expats who always complain about everything .
What we need to do is bite the bullet and make a statement . , We should have done it in 99 , we didnít, and have suffered the consequences ever since . Difference is there wasnít a pilot shortage back then , that has changed a lot in recent times , more and more pilots are leaving , there are good paying jobs everywhere , less and less pilots are choosing Cathay which is excacurbating the crewing problems for the company .
If you arenít prepared to fight for your COS expect them to be eroded . I think that it was Ed Rottington who said the company would continue to reduce pilot benefits until they met resistance .
There has never been a better time to make a statement you just need the courage to do so
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 02:03
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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As pilots we are great at beating our chest in the flight deck and the big majority won't then back it up, this time too much is at stake and we have to stick together and fight for our COS.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 04:11
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Pppffffttttt! Like that is ever going to happen. All pilots are spineless and look out for number one only. They will never consider anyone else regardless if they stand to gain or not.... We are the biggest bunch of girls ever... Maybe we should all have an Instagram account and masturbate our egos and whinge about how hard done by we are that our mates won't do the fighting for us.... I am ashamed to say it, but the pilots at CX are [email protected]#$&d at standing up for them selves. Just go on writing ASRF's because they really do work ( sarcasm!). Just give up trying to motivate cohesiveness. Go to work when you have to. Go sick when you need to. Go somewhere else if you can't stand it, because ain't nothing going to change around here... Not for the better as far as your concerned.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 06:00
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Sadly, RAT is correct. Considering that there are certain individuals (from bases) that are doing STC upgrades tells you all you need to know about the "character" of our group. Having said that, the circumstances are still working in our favour as the resignation rate is corroding the airline from the inside out. Still, it disgusts me that there are a few people who will undermine everyone else's sacrifice and commitment. The "Prancing Carrot" as one example, and the above mentioned self-serving individuals doing their upgrades. Cowards, immoral and characterless individuals. One and all. (the pathetic thing is that they are only serving to undermine their own conditions as well). Glad i'm leaving soon.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 07:18
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong, SAR.
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Ah, what's the use, right?
Just because there are a few spineless among us, doesn't mean that goes for the rest.
To the last two posters, such resignation...chin up fellas, that's not the attitude that won the battle for Britain!

Last edited by Oasis; 18th Apr 2018 at 07:36.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 15:34
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Not to worry, not defeated. In fact, I am focused on causing maximum aggravation to the company. The only small consolation left now. Still, am enjoying every moment of it.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 15:39
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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As one thankfully long retired from the industry, how disappointing it is to witness the decline and seemingly inevitable and inexorable descent into oblivion, of what was once the airline employer of choice for the ambitious and high achieving aviator.

Even more disturbing is that this decline is being aided and abetted by a cell of self-serving “kapos” of the shameless “prancing carrot” variety. Such venal and contemptible behaviour now seems to be the example set for certain newly hired tone-deaf, instagram addicted, terminally conceited individuals, whose nauseating self-absorption and narcissism trumps all else.

Important lesson for the white-anters, one invariably reaps what one sows.

Last edited by Fool Sufferer; 19th Apr 2018 at 15:54.
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 23:49
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Ah, what's the use, right?
Just because there are a few spineless among us, doesn't mean that goes for the rest.
To the last two posters, such resignation...chin up fellas, that's not the attitude that won the battle for Britain!
Totally agree!!! You will always have a few that turn and run at the first sign of a fight. That doesnít mean the rest of us wonít band together and defeat the enemy. I think the vast majority of us are strangling the Company with their own ties. Just keep up the pressure... Market forces are on our side.
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 00:34
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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It's not that I am turning and running. I am just a realist of the actual situation we are up against. Yeah sure your 4 mates are all United until one gets pin pointed and watch the other 3 run for their mortgages and kids education allowance!

It's not like the scene in "the right stuff" where the pilots all banded together, nope, it's as self serving as the managers eroding your conditions.

I will only believe we are all United when everyone including trainers and based guys all make the same unified stand.... But sadly that will never happen, if it did, you could realistically see this whole bad situation would be reversed immediately... Not years of eventual market pressure gradually raising the terms and conditions and strangling the managers with their own ties. Nothing will get better soon. All we will see is change and not for the better especially while pilots are all so spineless and fractured from realising as a group that we are or own worse enemy. Sadly this is the reality. Forget the pipe dream of unity because that was lost with the 49ers!
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Old 19th Apr 2018, 01:23
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 493
Ya....unfortunately that all might be true.

The 'fuel hedge' IMHO was always the reddest of red herrings. I guess there's a pun in there somewhere.

Unfortunately, THIS time there actually were other carriers to come along. And real competition for everything (many of whom realized crew costs were pretty low combined with the opportunities and actual market). Combine this with the fact when you look at the big picture that a US based Spirit pilot has better pay, travel benefits, and working conditions than most of the senior FO's here and you can see where this is going.

So the net result is the management wayyyyyyyyy overplayed their hand (and continues to do so) -- 'managing' only to alienate the folks they most need at the time they most need them. And at the end of the day with the way they've been going stands an excellent chance of finding themselves trying to sell a runout redneck beer label to whatever sucker might buy it.

Good luck with that.
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