Time to upgrade to FO and CN at Cathay

[BCFPilot]

Originally Posted by cxorcist

There is no doubt QF offers more and better career options than CX. Sure, you pay more tax, but that’s part of living in a civilized, 1st world country, which Hong Kong definitely is not. Hong Kong is more like 2nd world slipping backwards into the 3rd world that is mainland China.

At QF, you’ll also have a proper rostering system and the ability to bid between fleets, all based on seniority, not at Company whim born of spite and cost control.

In reality, one cannot really compare the two airlines because QF is a proper airline with a proper union and CX is a dinasour, nothing more than a relic of the past. CX doesn’t even hire real pilots anymore because so few are willing to come on the totally inadequate package, and we all know commuting at CX is completely impossible with unworkable rosters and ridiculous and expensive staff travel.

In short, CX has turned into the laughing stock of the industry. Any reputation to the contrary is just a blast from the past that in no way represents the current reality.

Could you elaborate a bit on the staff travel?
I'm curious to why it is expensive and "non existent" according to previous posts.

I was under the impression that even family is allowed to travel to HK through staff travel.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

staff travel is considered a profit centre for the airline unfortunately, don't even get me started on how staff are treated whilst using it. Can be pretty hard to get a seat, especially when a lot of cabin crew commute from around the region.

[Trafalgar]

I commute to and from Europe. Have been here well over 20 years. A round trip in business costs almost $800 usd. By comparison, a colleague at Delta, pays approximately $50 for a comparable flight. It is a particular point of disgust that CX treats their own employees like a profit center. Recently, as yet a futher demonstration of contempt towards their aircrew, they decided to lower the cost of economy staff travel, but actually increase business class. The unsaid slap is that most of the cabin crew are from the region, hence they can travel in economy at a much lower rate. Most of the aircrew however are from Europe/AusNZ/NA, so therefore are more likely to need to travel in business. Just another cynical example of how the CX management continue to show every pilot in this airline how much they hold them in contempt. I might further add that for a junior aircrew member, not only is it cost prohibitive to get home, but the boarding priorities have been changed in the last year or two, enabling passengers to upgrade for a nominal fee, thereby blocking out seats that used to be available for staff. The irony in that is that the extra fee gained by the airline is often less than they would have obtained from the staff member with the high staff travel costs. Take less money, but off the aircrew. Only CX management could see that as a win.

[gulliBell]

And just getting back to the topic of "time to upgrade.."

Just stumbled on the bio of this pilot (S.B. scroll down a bit)

https://fighterpilot.com.au/our-pilots/

From SO to Captain at CX in 11 years.

[cxorcist]

Originally Posted by gulliBell

And just getting back to the topic of "time to upgrade.."

Just stumbled on the bio of this pilot (S.B. scroll down a bit)

https://fighterpilot.com.au/our-pilots/

From SO to Captain at CX in 11 years.

That last of 11 year upgrades will occur this year. From here out, the time to command climbs hugely. 13-15 years in the next few years or so. After that, hard to say for certain, but I think well over 15 years, perhaps out to 20.

[Trafalgar]

You can be a captain at Delta in about 18 months. Many airlines it's 6 yrs or less. CX will almost certainly now be stretching out towards 15+. And a further bit of perspective, several Sr FO's with 11+ years and about to start their commands have recently resigned from CX to join the bottom of the seniority lists at other airlines. That should tell you all you need to know about the real situation at CX.

[CISTRS]

Sound Words of Advice

You Tube

[Che Xindamail]

QR DEFO time to Command on either A320, A330 or B787 is 3 years from checked to line, almost to the day, provided you have reached 4000 hours total, of which 2000 on company aircraft. Pilot ranks increased by over 500 in the past year thanks to expansion. Another 60 A350s and 30 B787s on order, plus 40 B777X.

[BCFPilot]

Originally Posted by Trafalgar

I commute to and from Europe. Have been here well over 20 years. A round trip in business costs almost $800 usd. By comparison, a colleague at Delta, pays approximately $50 for a comparable flight. It is a particular point of disgust that CX treats their own employees like a profit center. Recently, as yet a futher demonstration of contempt towards their aircrew, they decided to lower the cost of economy staff travel, but actually increase business class. The unsaid slap is that most of the cabin crew are from the region, hence they can travel in economy at a much lower rate. Most of the aircrew however are from Europe/AusNZ/NA, so therefore are more likely to need to travel in business. Just another cynical example of how the CX management continue to show every pilot in this airline how much they hold them in contempt. I might further add that for a junior aircrew member, not only is it cost prohibitive to get home, but the boarding priorities have been changed in the last year or two, enabling passengers to upgrade for a nominal fee, thereby blocking out seats that used to be available for staff. The irony in that is that the extra fee gained by the airline is often less than they would have obtained from the staff member with the high staff travel costs. Take less money, but off the aircrew. Only CX management could see that as a win.

Hi Trafalgar, thanks for the information.
Do you mean that employees have to pay for staff travel at Cathay?
And how does this work for family who want to visit you in HK?

[cxorcist]

Originally Posted by BCFPilot

Hi Trafalgar, thanks for the information.
Do you mean that employees have to pay for staff travel at Cathay?
And how does this work for family who want to visit you in HK?

Yes, we pay... a lot; and no, it generally does not work for family visiting. Flights are very full, but CX still cannot make money (or so we are told). I guess that’s what happens when you lose billions (usd) on fuel hedges.

[BCFPilot]

Originally Posted by cxorcist

Yes, we pay... a lot; and no, it generally does not work for family visiting. Flights are very full, but CX still cannot make money (or so we are told). I guess that’s what happens when you lose billions (usd) on fuel hedges.

Wow, didn't imagine that.
I was quite under the impression when I received the employee benefits, 13th month, travel benefits, children education allowance etc

"All employees may also nominate four member of their family (parents, siblings and, if married, parents-in-law) to enjoy these travel benefits. "

[Brokeidiot]

BCF yes you can nominate them. What people are trying to say is the odds of them or even you getting on the seat is not good at all you and you family will fall in order based on you date of joining which places ever person at Cathay and dragon ahead of you fighting for the very few available seats. If it’s a popular route it’s not uncommon to have 20+ people trying to get on. If by some stoke of luck you do get on it’s supposed to be 90% discounted but they take a theoretical most expensive ticket price that nobody ever pays basically 4x the price of anything you can get online as the base and then give you 90% on that. It’s about the equivalent of 60% discount. With load averages in the high +85% good luck.

[JPJP]

Originally Posted by cxorcist

Sage advice. I think CX SOs get so enamored with the (not-so) shiny jets that they ignore the obvious downsides, this being but one example. Keep in mind, time to JFO just ballooned out to 5-6 years, and that’s no exaggeration. 5-6 years with no hands on time except for sims.

Compound that with the cost of living in HK and the fact that SO/JFOs scrape the bottom of the pay scales and HKPA for the better part of a decade, and the picture is pretty grim. I’m not the most empathetic of chaps, but I feel truly sorry for CX SOs. They have chosen to believe the lies from CX, and most are stuck paying the price for many years under the most venal, malicious, and incompetent airline management in the world. It’s truly a sad state of affairs at CX. The persistent pollution in Hong Kong is but a metaphor for a CX career.

I was blown away by the recent thread showing a release of new-build apartments in Hong Kong. I was curious, so looked at the square footage and calculated the exchange rate. The largest ones in the current tranche were 2 bedrooms the size of a one bedroom (in most cities ~ 1100sq ft.) - 2.5 Million US Dollars. WTF ?

How does any SO or FO expect to ever own a decent home ? These were normal/nice apartments with a view - Not palaces. I find it remarkable that CX is able to hire anyone, unless they’re trying to escape a third world country, or rotting in Islamabad. Or both

[Trafalgar]

You just answered your own question. Nobody joining now has a hope of EVER owning their own home in HK. You will be at the mercy of ruthless HK landlords for your entire 'career'. That is why the only people CX can hire are 20yr old 'wannabes' who have no other commitments (and when they want to settle down, get married etc, they leave as well). Anyone who has any idea of a proper life quickly realises that living in HK and working for CX is impossible. The only people showing up here (fewer and fewer each month) are those naive enough to be fooled by the manipulative CX hiring process. A rude awakening awaits those that fall for it.

[Hiro Nakimura]

So I'm confused - two months ago DFO says on Slido that the majority of the 2019 and 2020 FO requirements will be filled by DEFOs.

Then a couple of days ago GMT writes a 'please don't leave' letter to all the SOs - in it he says that the Training Ban will be mitigated and the majority of the FO slots will be from SOs.

So - why negotiate at all? If TCC's son thinks that the TB can be 'mitigated' then there is no need to remove the TB.

Or maybe the left hand(DFO) doesn't know what the right hand (GMT) is writing?

[backtothegrindstone]

Good old PC.....he is a absolute . The big GMT oooooooo his daddy prob got him there. But lets not chat about that person. the "GMT" has absolutely no say in anything. He probably does not even know what he wrote on that email. All I know is that there are more resignations on the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Warning to the BIG FISH in a small pond. Your SO's are going to resign faster than you think if you dont make a plan and upgrade them..... tick tock AT/RH/PC.

AT congrats on running this airline into the ground. Spoke to a "DEFO" candidate and he said you cant pay him enough to work for this show, ha ha ha its so funny. This LCC know as CX is the worst, and I mean the worst company I have ever worked for. ANY person considering this airline DONT!!!! Unless you a insta celeb

I would NEVER recommend this place to anyone....when I leave. YES another SO gone.
Thank goodness i kept my wife with certain people snooping around.