Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

The latest AT drivel

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

The latest AT drivel

Old 28th Feb 2018, 21:54
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
The latest AT drivel

The Weekly Drivel.

Ohhhh, where does one start. The glistening drops of perspiration on Anna’s brow are starting to show, as the desperation to contain the imploding star once known as Cathay Pacific gathers force. The panic is evident in almost every statement. Thing is, it’s already too late. CX management has broken every law of trust that a healthy company relies on. Now, it’s a case of the little Anna that cries wolf. No one believes a word you say. Even sadder still, everyone knows that no matter what promises are made, even if implemented, they can be sure that at some point in their careers they will be arbitrarily taken away. There is no stability or certainty that a rational person could base the faith and trust needed to settle them and their families far from home, in the worlds most expensive city, with no support, a ruthless training and checking regime and a cynical and untrustworthy management. The hopes of a career at CX died, slowly over the past 20+ years. Now, it is a corpse, devoid of life or hope.

So, onto the latest newsletter:

The opening line “…this week has been full of positive news stories..”. Really Anna? Positive for who? Certainly not your aircrew. Nothing positive has happened since the day you arrived. Only a further degradation to our conditions and hopes. You have removed any certainty we once had as to our living arrangements, our hopes for basings, our remuneration, pensions…even our medical coverage. So please, STOP WITH THE CRAP. None of us buy it anymore. In fact, to use the language you do is condescending and insulting.

Even your statement regarding ‘clarity of basings’ actually just adds more uncertainty and doubt for yet ANOTHER YEAR. Oh, I forgot, you are desperately just trying to stop the hemorrhaging of aircrew until you can collect your next bonus and hopefully move onto your next Swire job. Got it. Bases are dead. You know it but don’t have the decency or honesty to admit it.

Cathay’s Cowabunga Cargo:

Looking at that picture, it seems the cows have better accommodation than we do at most of our hotels. Not much else to add.

Update Bases:

Oh, this is good. Say basically nothing, other than to dangle yet another sliver of bait on a stick in front of the more susceptible of our members. Forgetting one thing: most of us have long since concluded that you have killed off basings and are not willing to admit it. Instead, you are happy to have pilots and their families, who joined with the expectation of at least a chance at a base, while away the years in HK, living in overpriced shoe boxes and seeing their financial health, their medical health and their mental health deteriorate. You have sold the pilots a bill of goods, and you still have the nerve to use the issue for your own ends. I’ll be putting up a separate analysis of the specific newsletter on bases shortly. Needless to say, it’s an exercise in cynicism and outright dishonesty.

HKAOA:

When you can agree to negotiate based on facts, honesty and reality, then the AOA can sit down with you. Regardless, the fact that you paid the cabin crew and all the other staff a full 13th month, AND a PAY RAISE means that any talk of concessions is off the table, permanently. In fact, we expect and demand a pay raise for all the hits we have taken over the past few years.

CMP:

When you can accept and honour pilot input to the patterns and overall roster quality (you know, that little ‘quality of life’ aspect that somehow always gets forgotten at CX), then you can crow about CMP. Right now, we ALL see it’s only a way for CX to once again screw the pilots and their families.

Promotions and Resignations:

Hmmm, once again, no mention of the 60+ pilots that have resigned since the beginning of the year. In fact, I know 3 personally who resigned just in the past two weeks, no mention of them either. Sure it’s just an oversight.

Slido Q’s:

Always good fun.

Leave: They comment about the raised levels of sickness. That is all the evidence needed to show that the company is broken. The levels of sickness are well beyond industry norms. That is what happens when you push your crew to the limits of physical, mental and emotional endurance. And that is what CX has done. And it will only get worse, as hundreds of crew are resigning, placing an even bigger burden on those who remain, who are also making plans to leave. The death spiral of Cathay Pacific is now underway. Regardless of ‘leave slots’, most of us just take off the time as and when we need it, because we have NO ability to control our own lives, like we would at nearly every other airline.

Fuel hedging: The only comment that needs highlighting is that CX have now changed to a 2-year hedge period. Oh, you mean like nearly every other major airline in the world? Geniuses. Once again, the evolving facts and policies demonstrate how incompetent our management are. Now they figure it out, after losing BILLIONS of dollars in their juvenile and incompetent waste of the wealth of our airline (and then want to take it out of the pilots pockets!).

CMP: Over a thousand words to try and excuse what is turning into yet another epic CX debacle. You only have to speak to a 747 pilot to realize that it is making their lives WORSE. That is ALL you need to focus on. Instead, we get this extended drivel trying to convince us that the sky isn’t actually blue. Like everything else in this airline, it is broken. The pilots know it is broken, and they are leaving. You have managed to remove what little hope most of us held onto for the future.



With each weekly newsletter, the facts that support most of us making plans to leave become clearer and clearer. The dishonesty and manipulation of this management are no longer hidden from view. At least we can all now realize that the only future for a stable and rewarding career must lie elsewhere. Thank you AT for motivating us to get ourselves and our families to safety. At least you have provided some benefit to us….
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 03:29
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
Curtain rod

CR, they don't need pilots. They're slim in a few places, but they're well overstaffed in others. 20 plus pilots on reserve in a single day on the 777? More triple leases not renewed. More pilots to the Hairbrush and the freighter? They've played this one very well. The update today said this to me, "we could stand to lose a few more," so lets throw some more bad news out there. DM knew he wasn't saying anything concrete at all, just more carrots, that we all know are rotten carrots, or plastic carrots, or poisoned carrots, and you as an expat will never again see your home country with this outfit.

Folks are leaving, but they don't care, and have all the cheap labor they want lined up in Adelaide to take their places. And it appears that they will run this company into the ground, cut off their nose to spite their face, if we don't cave in. This place is a sinking ship, a vehicle about to burn up on re-entry, a sinking submarine on fire. Best jump ship while you can. There are a LOT of parachutes to be had out there right now, and there will be for the next 6-8 years in any country in the world. Best bail now. That's my advice. Thanks DM for making my mind up for me today.
plainpilot11 is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 04:23
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 328
Dan B, it is however a pity that the GC seem to be ignoring the membership.

This is a pivotal point in what has become a protracted stand off. It is essential that the GC starts to inform and motivate the membership as it seems that many are just giving up.

Time for some pep talks GC!
Farman Biplane is online now  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 05:03
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bouvet Island
Posts: 110
Curtain rod

Genius I’m not. However I’ll pass on the bait, as I know everyone’s emotions are running high. Of course they need pilots. It’s the supply. And they have supply. Qualified, experienced supply? Of course not.
plainpilot11 is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 08:52
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 328
Thanks Curtain, I am native English speaker/reader, a huge amount of pilots are not!

We do not need subtle grammatical clues and nuances, we need simple and forthright language that will motivate and guide the members.

Simple messages stated often will remind the members of the truth and counter the CX mantra that is thrust upon us, most of which is duplicitous.
Farman Biplane is online now  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 20:53
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 398
If they have got plenty of pilots then why are we all having 10-20 hours overtime jammed down our throats every month? 20 guys on reserve? That’s not an indication of surplus crew... it’s screwing them out of days off to desperately crew flights everyday. They’re back to filling crew seats only 6-12 hours in advance.. not days or a month. There’s no plan .. just damage control. Constantly being told .. “we’ll have to cancel the flight if you don’t operate”
So what?! Take that to the 3rd floor.!!
BlunderBus is offline  
Old 1st Mar 2018, 23:27
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 245
..... many of whom are decades senior to the baby 3CNs complaining about even more baby ECNs doing A50 flying to oz. Happy to benefit from CX's loose application of seniority - based fleet assignment when it suits them, but spit the dummy when they lose out.

Last edited by Veruka Salt; 1st Mar 2018 at 23:54.
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2018, 04:45
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 4,733
We need to unite against a common enemy.
"Yes - The People's Judean Front!"

"No No - the Romans!"

"Oh.....yes!"

Dan Winterland is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2018, 11:55
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by ADFUS View Post
Veruka why do you make a point to s**t on your colleagues? Airbus crews have definitely been pineapple'd for the last 7 years. Let's not pretend that jumbo pilots haven't been sitting pretty pretending not to notice.

We need to unite against a common enemy.
That's true, CX is the enemy. However, an A330 roster from 5 years ago is an absolute wet dream compared to what is going on now on the 747. I love hearing about how hard done by guys were having to do India's and split duties. How many times did you have a 3-hour pit stop in Chennai on the way home from Bombay? Spent a ton of time in the back of a Jet Airways 737, or a Delta MD-88? Etc. There is no doubt that the regional flying on the bus is tough. But its not even in the same league. There simply is no comparison. You also can't understand it, except in an abstract sense, unless you live it. Since the introduction of the CMP, it's worse. Mostly because crew ops can't help themselves and begin to screw around at 1800 on the 15th with the next month's roster. I recommend you all have a look at the HKG 747 pairing books so you can peer a few months into the future.
tiredofstupidity is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2018, 21:40
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,544
tiredofstupidity (aren't we all...). You deserve the understanding and sympathy of every pilot in CX. What this company is doing with your lives, the effect on your health, your families well being is a disgrace. Only made even more acute by the condescending and arrogant claims from management as to how much they 'care' and how they are 'improving' things. It's enough to make you . There is only one effective way to protect your health, both physical and mental. We all understand. This company deserves to be ground to dust. A disgrace in the modern aviation era. The management are an utter and complete failure.
Trafalgar is offline  
Old 2nd Mar 2018, 23:55
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: hongkong
Posts: 398
Here we go again...beat up your colleagues over rostering.
ALL fleet rosters are crap and the REAL issue is we have NO control at all.
Last minute changes by the hundred and no penalties.Overtime jammed down your throat, Leave choice..what a joke, days off when they see fit to award them. Free reserve(30 days a year) O days..A days..SB..NB..EXB...ALL abused at will by crew control at the last minute. Who on earth flies a 16 hour transpac only to have the EXB(free from all duties) day turned in a FREE reserve or asian flight??on arrival!!!
Grow up..get together and see who the REAL enemy is here.
BlunderBus is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 00:27
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 325
Originally Posted by tiredofstupidity View Post
That's true, CX is the enemy. However, an A330 roster from 5 years ago is an absolute wet dream compared to what is going on now on the 747.
I call BS on this!

Obviously the 747 pilots are more proactive in educating everyone how bad it is, where as we on the Airbus were too overworked and too fatigued to do anything about it.
Dragon69 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 00:41
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 615
Baby 3CNs ??

Veruka..
Only to clearly indicating you're a disgruntled B (senior fleet) member now bemoaning the fact that the big B has lost it's world standing and is a low tech gas gulping antiquity with a garbage lifestyle. Not to long ago you were likely doing your walk around complete with ray bans in place while the punters in the window go ohhh ahhh..
Now, restricted to a greasy cargo ramp and endless crap (i.e. CMP) rosters you're taking out your frustrations on other crew members simply due to the fact that they are on another (baby) fleet and you're #STUCK on the fleet you more than likely elected to be on.
What goes around comes around.

It is NOT the Baby3 pilots you should be venting your frustration and anger at, it's either yourself OR CX "leadership".. You decide and then leave the poor folks who have NO say in what, where and when the fly alone..
Flex88 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 05:52
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 955
Flex, there's a lot of venom in that post. Hardly subliminal.
Take some time off, bud. Lie on a beach somewhere with someone you care about and who'll listen, and let it all out.
Alternatively, get a sick note and see a psychiatrist. You shouldn't be involved in public transport in your state of mind.
Seriously.
Cpt. Underpants is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 06:47
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: HK-CRoC
Posts: 615
Agree CU. This is how 25 years of drip, drip, drip "sub standard leadership" manifests itself.

It's all coming apart..
Flex88 is offline  
Old 3rd Mar 2018, 08:07
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 245
You forgot the long sleeve shirt bit, flex. But thanks for proving my point
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2018, 01:40
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: CYYZ
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Veruka Salt View Post
You forgot the long sleeve shirt bit, flex. But thanks for proving my point
Long sleeve shirt?
Sea Eggs is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.