So no 13 th month for Captains
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I have little doubt that by Monday, Wednesday at the latest the DFO, GMA, CEO and CP's will be trotting out the usual patronizing rubbish they seem to think we want to hear. That our captains are well respected not just in CX but throughout the industry. That CX captains are an integral part of the CX Team spirit. That CX captains have helped make this airline the safest in the world.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.
On their own propaganda blog "Yammar" the biggest single thread in it's history with over 140 postings and over 240 likes has been in response to the Tom Owen message trying to explain his rationale for deliberately discriminating against every single captain in the company.
Well come Monday when you are writing your patronizing garbage save yourself the time and effort. The damage has been done.
YOU NO LONGER HAVE THE CONFIDENCE OF YOUR CAPTAINS
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.
On their own propaganda blog "Yammar" the biggest single thread in it's history with over 140 postings and over 240 likes has been in response to the Tom Owen message trying to explain his rationale for deliberately discriminating against every single captain in the company.
Well come Monday when you are writing your patronizing garbage save yourself the time and effort. The damage has been done.
YOU NO LONGER HAVE THE CONFIDENCE OF YOUR CAPTAINS
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Hear hear. You are right. They no longer have the confidence, or respect of their Captains. The only letter I want to see from the Fleet Office is the one telling AT that what they have done is a disgrace and insult to their Captains, and to make it right. I'll be holding my breath.
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The AOA has become totally irrelevant . They should have anticipated this outcome and had a plan of action ready to go immediately .
The sad reality of the situation is that if the AOA called for strike action there are insufficient pilots with enough backbone that would respond and walk out . The remainder would find some sort of excuse as to why they couldn't do it , just as they did in 99 . Had we called the company's bluff back then and allowed the company to fire us all, we would not be in the current predicament that we now face .
In defence of the AOA , it is only as strong as it's members, any number of whom are terrified to confront the company, yet fail to realise that 100% collective action would be like a tsunami for the company to deal with . Sure they may fire a few, but providing everyone stands united until those few are reinstated we would never be treated with such indifference again .
United we stand divided we fall.
This is our watershed moment so I ask what do you intend to do ? Stand and be counted or roll over and be a doormat for the remainder of your career
The sad reality of the situation is that if the AOA called for strike action there are insufficient pilots with enough backbone that would respond and walk out . The remainder would find some sort of excuse as to why they couldn't do it , just as they did in 99 . Had we called the company's bluff back then and allowed the company to fire us all, we would not be in the current predicament that we now face .
In defence of the AOA , it is only as strong as it's members, any number of whom are terrified to confront the company, yet fail to realise that 100% collective action would be like a tsunami for the company to deal with . Sure they may fire a few, but providing everyone stands united until those few are reinstated we would never be treated with such indifference again .
United we stand divided we fall.
This is our watershed moment so I ask what do you intend to do ? Stand and be counted or roll over and be a doormat for the remainder of your career
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I may be more pro Cathay Pacific than the likes of Traf, but I recognize a truly dumb and insulting management decision when I see one and this takes the cake. Very poor management and I expect that the late ARAPA news was a panicked adjustment when the level of anger was realized. Knee jerk management?
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Just want to highlight the significance of management not paying a 13th month, but paying a $35k special payment instead.
For the pilots, any 13th month, or part 13th month, would attract a further payment into the Provident Fund. A "special payment" does not attract a Provident Fund payment.
A little bit more into the Swire Bonus Pot.
Time to win... Just not for you.....
For the pilots, any 13th month, or part 13th month, would attract a further payment into the Provident Fund. A "special payment" does not attract a Provident Fund payment.
A little bit more into the Swire Bonus Pot.
Time to win... Just not for you.....
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Apologies that I cannot post the following on Yammer because I may need a reference from the company as I am currently active in the job market. Having just read Tom and Tony's replies, I created an account here hoping someone here will hold them accountable.
In Tom's second post, he states all level D and above managers will not receive a bonus or an increment. This is simply not true because many are on a Swire employment contract. Only those on CX contract are subject to zero bonus and increment. Understand zero bonus is a tough pill to swallow for the captains. But it is as upsetting if not more for level D ground staff knowing the person next door on a Swire contract who got the company into this mess will get a full bonus and increment. He/she also knows it is a short term position before rotating out of this joke of a company.
Below link to 2016 annual report with notes on Directors' remuneration on pages 88-89. I cannot post links as I'm a new member - google Cathay Pacific 2016 Annual Report.
Bonues for Directors in 2016 ranged from $125k to $5,057k. I highly doubt when the 2017 annual report is published in April/May that Directors' bonus will be zero. Tom received bonus of $736k ($424k + 312k) in 2016.
Having worked at CX for six years, the pecking order cannot be any clearer.
1 - employees on Swire contract
2 - consultants, their wives/husbands and other third parties
3 - employees on CX contract
In Tom's second post, he states all level D and above managers will not receive a bonus or an increment. This is simply not true because many are on a Swire employment contract. Only those on CX contract are subject to zero bonus and increment. Understand zero bonus is a tough pill to swallow for the captains. But it is as upsetting if not more for level D ground staff knowing the person next door on a Swire contract who got the company into this mess will get a full bonus and increment. He/she also knows it is a short term position before rotating out of this joke of a company.
Below link to 2016 annual report with notes on Directors' remuneration on pages 88-89. I cannot post links as I'm a new member - google Cathay Pacific 2016 Annual Report.
Bonues for Directors in 2016 ranged from $125k to $5,057k. I highly doubt when the 2017 annual report is published in April/May that Directors' bonus will be zero. Tom received bonus of $736k ($424k + 312k) in 2016.
Having worked at CX for six years, the pecking order cannot be any clearer.
1 - employees on Swire contract
2 - consultants, their wives/husbands and other third parties
3 - employees on CX contract
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Back Office
Excellent reminder.
Additionally, we should all be reminded; GM's are on a separate deal as well.
They (non Swire pilots) get 13th month + another budget related bonus.
Everyone should start pressing to see what these types take home...
Additionally, we should all be reminded; GM's are on a separate deal as well.
They (non Swire pilots) get 13th month + another budget related bonus.
Everyone should start pressing to see what these types take home...
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Rumour has it that all senior managers (and yes, the ones on the third floor included) have received upwards of $1M hkd each to 'keep them onside' during this rather 'difficult' transition period.
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Legal Challenge?
Cos 08 contains the following:
9.1. An Annual Discretionary Bonus equivalent to one (1) month’s Salary will normally be paid to all Officers with twelve (12) months’ qualifying service as at 31st December in the relevant year.
Further on "normally" is defined. The definition of all officers is simple and I can't see that this definition can be altered by further defining a Captain as Level D; that attribution of a Level is in anycase purely administrative.
I am not a lawyer but I would read the Cos to mean that the bonus should be paid either to all Officers or to none at all. I suggest that the AoA get the lawyers onto this straight away if they have not already done so.
9.1. An Annual Discretionary Bonus equivalent to one (1) month’s Salary will normally be paid to all Officers with twelve (12) months’ qualifying service as at 31st December in the relevant year.
Further on "normally" is defined. The definition of all officers is simple and I can't see that this definition can be altered by further defining a Captain as Level D; that attribution of a Level is in anycase purely administrative.
I am not a lawyer but I would read the Cos to mean that the bonus should be paid either to all Officers or to none at all. I suggest that the AoA get the lawyers onto this straight away if they have not already done so.
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I wanted to post this to Yammer but I don't dare with their vindictive culture so I'll post here.
What I find most shocking about CX management and the shockingly patronizing efforts we've read here from two managers about how they're surprised at the reaction and how we just don't understand the intent of their decision etc. etc. Is their complete and utter inability to take any responsibility for their own actions. I have never heard a CX manager apologize for anything and I won't hear that anytime soon. Obviously Swire teaches it's little princesses never to admit any wrong doing because that may hurt our bottom line and that is all that matters. What a pathetic way to go through life. What I cherish about my membership and fellowship with the pilot community is that no matter what our differences we take responsibility for our actions and we live and deal in reality. And after I realize my own error I learn from it and I become better and stronger. Cathay was started by two professional pilots not Swire. That is what made CX a great airline with a great culture of professionalism and safety. They took care of their people and it became this jewel in the Orient. Then someone saw it as a cash cow and took to milking it. What a shame. I would like to finish my flying career at CX but if it seems that I and some of my pilot brothers have stated things that are true but may be hurtful to some bean counting manager that we would normally not say perhaps it's because I know I can have a higher paying job in a matter of days or weeks if I am forced to go that route. Working for an airline that is making a profit because they didn't gamble that airline's treasure away out of greed and incompetence. An airline where the managers own their decisions and therefore it flourishes. Did you think that having your lawyers seek out a technical error made by a recruiting company would change the fact that every major airline in China is in desperate need of experienced captains and that they have the foresight to know that in order to grow they need that experience? What are you going to do when the only pilots you're willing to pay enough to attract were mobile phone salesmen 6 months before they became pilots? Actually I know the answer. You will be off working for Coke or Pepsi or some other management bonus generator.
Some CX pilots were combat veterans for goodness sake and yet you dare invoke the words leadership and respect. What a needless and pathetic situation we find ourselves in. When I command a CX aircraft with 400 souls on board who give me their trust I carry that trust in this little place right between my heart and my brain. It's the most precious thing in the world to me and I would never betray it because I have values and I understand that greed is not a value. It is a disease. And yet I'm not even worth an email asking me if I am willing to forgo the rather creative term my gratis payment for those paid less. As I know managers will persist in their belief that it's all about the money to pilots I will reiterate no it's not. It's the principle that the company we bring so much to has showed such an incomprehensible level of disrespect to those who carry that passenger trust.
What I find most shocking about CX management and the shockingly patronizing efforts we've read here from two managers about how they're surprised at the reaction and how we just don't understand the intent of their decision etc. etc. Is their complete and utter inability to take any responsibility for their own actions. I have never heard a CX manager apologize for anything and I won't hear that anytime soon. Obviously Swire teaches it's little princesses never to admit any wrong doing because that may hurt our bottom line and that is all that matters. What a pathetic way to go through life. What I cherish about my membership and fellowship with the pilot community is that no matter what our differences we take responsibility for our actions and we live and deal in reality. And after I realize my own error I learn from it and I become better and stronger. Cathay was started by two professional pilots not Swire. That is what made CX a great airline with a great culture of professionalism and safety. They took care of their people and it became this jewel in the Orient. Then someone saw it as a cash cow and took to milking it. What a shame. I would like to finish my flying career at CX but if it seems that I and some of my pilot brothers have stated things that are true but may be hurtful to some bean counting manager that we would normally not say perhaps it's because I know I can have a higher paying job in a matter of days or weeks if I am forced to go that route. Working for an airline that is making a profit because they didn't gamble that airline's treasure away out of greed and incompetence. An airline where the managers own their decisions and therefore it flourishes. Did you think that having your lawyers seek out a technical error made by a recruiting company would change the fact that every major airline in China is in desperate need of experienced captains and that they have the foresight to know that in order to grow they need that experience? What are you going to do when the only pilots you're willing to pay enough to attract were mobile phone salesmen 6 months before they became pilots? Actually I know the answer. You will be off working for Coke or Pepsi or some other management bonus generator.
Some CX pilots were combat veterans for goodness sake and yet you dare invoke the words leadership and respect. What a needless and pathetic situation we find ourselves in. When I command a CX aircraft with 400 souls on board who give me their trust I carry that trust in this little place right between my heart and my brain. It's the most precious thing in the world to me and I would never betray it because I have values and I understand that greed is not a value. It is a disease. And yet I'm not even worth an email asking me if I am willing to forgo the rather creative term my gratis payment for those paid less. As I know managers will persist in their belief that it's all about the money to pilots I will reiterate no it's not. It's the principle that the company we bring so much to has showed such an incomprehensible level of disrespect to those who carry that passenger trust.
Never got ‘Clara’, even tho’ my boat seemed to always be recovering under the only rainshower for miles around.
Good post, but it is aimed at people with hides like rhinoceri, so I would not worry about Yammer. There are still crickets chirping after the trainers’ letter to them.
Good post, but it is aimed at people with hides like rhinoceri, so I would not worry about Yammer. There are still crickets chirping after the trainers’ letter to them.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 10th Dec 2017 at 08:30.
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Malcolm, apols for the late reply but its been a manic roster with little time off, (lucky bugger with that month on month off!). Sam was pissed off that I couldn't make the wedding but even with a joker request in, 2 days wouldn't cut a trip to the UK. (apparently, it was due to .."training commitments), its truly a punitive roster system where even with my seniority, I should at least get some sort of result. Anyway, its all kicking off here..I bet you're glad you never made the move when I did, though I hear yourself and Phil are going to the 78 next year? I recall you saying that the expat benefit package will be confined to history by the new millennium, though to be fair, the slide south has been gradual but with "tricky" spikes..the snags of working with a company that rotates its management through the most bizarre of systems..can you believe that a spotty 22 year old bottle making junior graduate can be slotted into an airline and NOT screw up?..I can see THAT working in BA bro!..wish I had stayed when I had the chance..though as you might have heard from John, the promised 13 th month we get has been refused to Captains and the manager personal..ex Brit army FCS too, has tried to explain how its appropriate??all to cover up massive losses that these ******** caused in the first place! ( makes the balloon end of contract payments at Vietnam etc look like contract flying might be the way to go now).
Seems like you're on a winner with the bid line again.. another Xmas off! lucky bugger!! swop my split Taipei with you possibly..??..I don't even get NY off..whilst management slide off to Bali or Whistler for their hols…being marginalised over this whole 22 years is tiring to say the least..off to my swag now.. another min rest state side..see you enjoyed your 3 day Dallas trip.. nice pics! (maybe catch you in Dartmouth next year with the dogs.. still no sign of when th 2018 leave might be..probably academic since I"ll be back to the line by then..together with most of the other guys!!! I see Dave has joined J2..! after he left CX, it was all about.."never another airline"..we shall see!
Seems like you're on a winner with the bid line again.. another Xmas off! lucky bugger!! swop my split Taipei with you possibly..??..I don't even get NY off..whilst management slide off to Bali or Whistler for their hols…being marginalised over this whole 22 years is tiring to say the least..off to my swag now.. another min rest state side..see you enjoyed your 3 day Dallas trip.. nice pics! (maybe catch you in Dartmouth next year with the dogs.. still no sign of when th 2018 leave might be..probably academic since I"ll be back to the line by then..together with most of the other guys!!! I see Dave has joined J2..! after he left CX, it was all about.."never another airline"..we shall see!