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Cut in Salary...no problem!

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Cut in Salary...no problem!

Old 25th Nov 2017, 13:40
  #1 (permalink)  
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Cut in Salary...no problem!

I have no problem if CX cut's my salary...don't want it as this is the perfect time to talk pay structure changes.

We are in an industry which has a standard pay scheme, with the exception of CX of course. This difference has been a benefit in the past but in the modern era it's been a huge liability.

It's an issue in every pay negotiation when CX compares our lemons to their apples. Sure, we get paid well on paper but our paycheck doesn't tell the full story. How many days do we work (away from home) for that salary compared to other carriers? How much career freedom do we have compared to other carriers? How much flexibility do we have to "get a family day off" do we have compared to other carriers? NONE and that is the problem.

If we had a similar pay system then our apples would look like their apples and we can just discuss an hourly rate. Talk about transparency!

GMA and others are blind to all of this and in typical bean counter fashion they just want their 10% because that's what they have been told to get. It's time for a real revolt and that comes in hourly pay and a credit system which is standard in our industry and only then will the CMP even begin to work as it should.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 15:04
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Actually Rod, we are part of the problem as too many want to keep the old salary system. Get a consensus and maybe things will change.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 15:21
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cpdude
you make some valid points BUT Swires and CX manage using 19th century rule books. recently some one told them they need to communicate with their employees so they hire a HR dude and sidekick and hold a survey. The results are terrible, low response and the single biggest grievance by employees is mistrust of management. So survey complete, box ticked. PR man applies for job with Nike in USA and Cx returns to Victorian management style.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 21:15
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Cut in Salary

What they want? They, Swires (Prince, Princesses + London) want the biggest year end bonus they can stuff in their pants / pantsuit pocket. Period. They care not one iota about your plight. It's just business you know.
Their target in this area, they want the exact same flight crew cost base an Air Asia... "So they can compete (i.e. pocket/syphon the "excess").

Last edited by Flex88; 26th Nov 2017 at 00:57.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 23:29
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Ah CPdude... The fabled pay restructure... The refuge of the gutless and delusional.

Do you seriously believe a new pay system will be beneficial to us? Grow up.

I notice the GC recently swept aside our contractual 2017 pay review (after failing to enforce the 2017 pay review promised in the 2015 pay deal) with the notion/promise/hope of a new pay structure. Here's why a revised pay restructure will be bad for you;

1. The CMP is about to present the company with an unassailable data/computing advantage over the HKAOA. They will know to the cent how much a new pay structure will cost. We will have a laptop. Of the course the company will honestly share their calculations with us.... (Cough)...

2. Presently, if the company provides you with no work (SARS, SLS, Sick) you get near full salary. Do you think a new pay system will provide that?

3. Presently, if you fly 30% more hours, you nearly double your salary. That may not happen often, but that is because our current pay system discourages work stacking. (this why the GC's proposed 3 months averaging of HDP/EFP was so profoundly dumb and dangerous). Again, do you seriously believe a new pay system will retain this feature?

4. I wager you will lose at the top and bottom end of the hours range. Of course, you will argue that any new pay structure will make it up in the middle where most rosters sit. I say there is no way that will happen. Where's our leverage for that? You will get parity at best and the company will profit at the top and bottom ends.

5. A new pay structure will take a couple of years to come into play. In the meantime the HKAOA will not press for a pay review, however inflation never sleeps. Your pay has not been reviewed since May 17. You won't have a pay structure in place before May 19 and inflation will have eroded your earnings by at least 4%. Yep, 4% is nothing, unless you equate it over 20 years, where it is effectively a year's pay!

But of course, you will argue that all this pay sacrifice is worth it for PBS. This is music to managements' ears because you are gleefully skipping towards the pilots' preverbial banana skin. To get your hands on the mythical fabled PBS you will start 4% behind and then agree permanent pay concessions in your COS. However, the Rules controlling PBS will be in a short-term RP deal. When the term of the RP deal expires, you will be invited to buy PBS back again for future pay cuts. We slip on that banana skin everytime.... the 9th floor must get a laugh out of that one time and time again!

Sorry to vomit in porridge bowl, but the promise of a new pay structure is just a poor excuse to not challenge the company now. The whole pay sacrifice for PBS is fools' gold.
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 01:39
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And that is after we actually pay for the implementation of the whole CMP with the impending “cost cuts”.
You didn’t think they would pay for the CMP did you?
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 01:40
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cpdude

"We are in an industry which has a standard pay scheme, with the exception of CX of course. This difference has been a benefit in the past but in the modern era it's been a huge liability."

Just what planet are you from? Which airline and
what exact "Standard Pay Structure" ?
Three Examples:

1. American Airlines
2. Air Asia X
3. Ryanair

Exactly which one(s) of the "Standard Pay Structures" do you think AT/RH have their eyes on ?
What's the cost of housing in Dublin/Sepang these days ? Oh, I'm just drooling to get the same benefits as examples 2 & 3...
#JFC
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 08:25
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Cpdude is actually right on the money with this. In fact, the true benefits of computerised rostering can't be fully realised until we move to an hourly pay structure. The amount of people that don't understand this is astounding.
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 09:44
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777300ER

I understand the "concept" that to get the full benefits of the CMP we need to move to hourly pay system. I understand it and I don't want it because it's just a paycut in disguise. TIC (This is Cathay).

Do you seriously believe management will give you the benefits of the CMP or will they turn the benefits off when they want more paycuts... Go on, answer that one.... I dare you....
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 12:26
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Rod,

I am the other 50% and the reason we work 18-22 days a month is it cost CX nothing given the salary system. Are you really that naive?
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 13:07
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Yes, yes, yes we all know that. But until we start to work as a team, pulling in one direction whether that was our 1st choice or not we won't ever have a chance. That was my point. Everyone wants what they want...3000 bloody individuals!
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Old 28th Nov 2017, 06:19
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Hey CpDude and 777300ER,

Since you don't care or you haven't noticed, the other half of the pilots here work 18-22 days a month for 40 or 60 hours of credited pay hours, despite doing up to 4-5 times the amount of sectors you do, not even getting anywhere near full HDP, zero EFP, much less sleep, way less in-flight rest, way less time off, way less time at home, and constant roster and sleep disruption. The current system guaranteeing a 90% minimum salary is just fine, thank you very much.
The move to an hourly pay system would obviously be contingent on adequate trip rigs and minimum daily credit values. The notion that productivity is based on hours flown is one of the key reasons why our rostering lags behind every other first world airline.

It isn't impossible to find a scenario on paper where the company and the pilot group wins. With this management team and pilot group however, I won't hold my breath.
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Old 28th Nov 2017, 11:29
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A hourly system can work. But, I want a UA,DL or AA pay protection and contact in place. Otherwise just a new way for CX to abuse us
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Old 28th Nov 2017, 11:48
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Drop Knee. You are correct. You can't have productivity based pay without proper trip rigs and other aspects of the US airline pay systems. You also need seniority bidding to ensure you can get on the fleet that best manages that based on your seniority. As you say, without all the attendant rules of such a system, CX would only abuse it (why, because that's what they do).
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