COS 17
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely, Absolutely, and Absolutely (and the 'do what he is told' without heeded feedback in the other direction from time to time isn't the right thing to do and will result in the ultimate failure of the company; especially when faced with competition--not sure where you get this mindset of a static autocratic organization working well).
At least if I'm going to depend on the iPhone to do anything important or last over the long term. Or do cool new stuff. Or even work. One of the reasons I'm careful where I source my stuff if it's in a critical component and only turn to trusted sources for this. The trusted sources have excellent customer service, don't dwell in excuses, and if there is ever a problem make it right. When I talk to them I get the impression they love what they do and are grateful to be a part of the team--and are genuinely 'can do' and happy.
I'm willing to pay more for this as well. Had too many cheap parts from apathetic companies (especially bolts and optics when subject to hard usage) fail over the long term and had to write it off; my time in dealing with them to make things right would exceed the time required to buy something good from someone good. One of lifes' experiences.
And you usually don't have to pay a huge amount more but do need to be selective. Like a check ride you can often get the impression of who you're dealing with in the first 5 minutes or so.
The world saw this with Japanese quality in the 80s and 90s. American workers and car makers stood stagnant and mediocre. Meanwhile Japanese quality in cars went from poor to excellent -- with justifiable pride in their product and contribution to their team-- and they grabbed the market share and boomed.
At least until they naively trusted folks from other places and assumed they'd do things like pay them back or that the swamp land wasn't really swamp land. Or that ethics in folks from other places were the same as theirs.
But their cars still work pretty damn well--at least mine do. And they seem to try to do things on time. And care about it. Even if the pay isn't huge.
So, yes, it is important. And if you ain't moving you're dying.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is the company behind your Iphone:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Will you now stop buying it?
Will they sell less because the workers in the factory are unhappy?
Of course not.
Same goes for the shirt you are wearing right now, the house you live in, the fish on your plate, the list is endless.
You care who produced it, at what cost or working conditions ?
Don't fool yourself, nobody cares, neither you, nor anybody else.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Will you now stop buying it?
Will they sell less because the workers in the factory are unhappy?
Of course not.
Same goes for the shirt you are wearing right now, the house you live in, the fish on your plate, the list is endless.
You care who produced it, at what cost or working conditions ?
Don't fool yourself, nobody cares, neither you, nor anybody else.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is the company behind your Iphone:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Will you now stop buying it?
Will they sell less because the workers in the factory are unhappy?
Of course not.
Same goes for the shirt you are wearing right now, the house you live in, the fish on your plate, the list is endless.
You care who produced it, at what cost or working conditions ?
Don't fool yourself, nobody cares, neither you, nor anybody else.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
Will you now stop buying it?
Will they sell less because the workers in the factory are unhappy?
Of course not.
Same goes for the shirt you are wearing right now, the house you live in, the fish on your plate, the list is endless.
You care who produced it, at what cost or working conditions ?
Don't fool yourself, nobody cares, neither you, nor anybody else.
Must be hell going through life like that. Good luck to 'ya.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: one country, one system
Age: 55
Posts: 505
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you are living in denial.
Be honest to yourself: how much do you really care about the production of goods?
To buy something with a bad feeling is not enough. Your " perspective on life" is irrelevant as long as you still buy the product. Only when you don't buy it you made a significant choice.
Shep, this is not meant as a personal challenge or attack, in the end I cannot know your individual consumer behaviour, nor can you proof it here, nor is it relevant. Fact is 99.9 % of the people don't really care.This is about the world we live in, not about the world we want it to be.
I have to cringe everytime I hear colleagues arguing morally when it comes to our pay, working conditions. As if anyone of us would want more money or better conditions because that would make the world a better place, or would secure the future of the company. Ridiculous. It is about our own advantage, pure and simple, and ironically there is nothing wrong with that. Why don't you admit it? Put away the emotions, look at the choices we have, and choose the best. Don't get lost in ideologies.
We live in a time where people show "solidarity" by liking or sharing a facebook site, or they buy an organic fair trade coffee once a month. I once saw a WWF bumper sticker on a SUV.
But in the end you still do buy that new Iphone, you still buy clothes at high street shops, you go to Starbucks, you eat meat and fish, etc
When did you ever not buy a product that was important to you because you wasn't sure the production standards meet your ethical requirements? Or because the wage of the worker was too low? How much do you pay your maid? How often do you let her fly home to see her kids?
You never booked a flight with a budget airline? How much do you think earns the women at the till of your supermarket? You ever cared who is losing a job when shopping online? You ever worried about the wage of the driver when ordering an Uber?
In economic terms:
When did you delibaretely pay more than the market price other than for occasional minor purchases ?
When did you really put your money where your mouth is?
I once listened to a colleague complaining about the declining industry standards who then a minute later told me happily he will fly to Boracay on Cebu Pacific!
In the end you are looking for own advantage wherever you can, you guys care about wages or production only when it is your own employer, when it concerns yourself.
Shep, your argument that an "unhappy" workforce is unsustainable is only true if "unhappy" means employees either don't show up or sabotage their work.
Do you still show up for work?
Do you sabotage ?
As long as the result is within limits, the happyness of the worker is irrelevant. If the consumer doesn't care, why should the employer?
Adam Smith and Gordon Gekko thought this is no problem. I don't know what the answer is , but to simply deny your own responsibility and your own involvement isn't for sure.
And to make it very clear, without much hope of getting my message through I admit:
I am NOT on their side, I could not care less for this company, I have no clue if there will a COS 17 , all I know is that we declined a contract for more money because some lawyer did not like the fine print. Which they never do, that is their business model! Some of you declined it because it did not "feel" right, because you wanted to "show them". Like Brexit or Trump, you voted against something without considering the consequences, you let your emotions control your life.
All I want is as much as possible for me. For MY time sitting in this ****ty metal tube and wasting my life.
Stop this silly crusade, and don't lose target.
This is business.
Be honest to yourself: how much do you really care about the production of goods?
To buy something with a bad feeling is not enough. Your " perspective on life" is irrelevant as long as you still buy the product. Only when you don't buy it you made a significant choice.
Shep, this is not meant as a personal challenge or attack, in the end I cannot know your individual consumer behaviour, nor can you proof it here, nor is it relevant. Fact is 99.9 % of the people don't really care.This is about the world we live in, not about the world we want it to be.
I have to cringe everytime I hear colleagues arguing morally when it comes to our pay, working conditions. As if anyone of us would want more money or better conditions because that would make the world a better place, or would secure the future of the company. Ridiculous. It is about our own advantage, pure and simple, and ironically there is nothing wrong with that. Why don't you admit it? Put away the emotions, look at the choices we have, and choose the best. Don't get lost in ideologies.
We live in a time where people show "solidarity" by liking or sharing a facebook site, or they buy an organic fair trade coffee once a month. I once saw a WWF bumper sticker on a SUV.
But in the end you still do buy that new Iphone, you still buy clothes at high street shops, you go to Starbucks, you eat meat and fish, etc
When did you ever not buy a product that was important to you because you wasn't sure the production standards meet your ethical requirements? Or because the wage of the worker was too low? How much do you pay your maid? How often do you let her fly home to see her kids?
You never booked a flight with a budget airline? How much do you think earns the women at the till of your supermarket? You ever cared who is losing a job when shopping online? You ever worried about the wage of the driver when ordering an Uber?
In economic terms:
When did you delibaretely pay more than the market price other than for occasional minor purchases ?
When did you really put your money where your mouth is?
I once listened to a colleague complaining about the declining industry standards who then a minute later told me happily he will fly to Boracay on Cebu Pacific!
In the end you are looking for own advantage wherever you can, you guys care about wages or production only when it is your own employer, when it concerns yourself.
Shep, your argument that an "unhappy" workforce is unsustainable is only true if "unhappy" means employees either don't show up or sabotage their work.
Do you still show up for work?
Do you sabotage ?
As long as the result is within limits, the happyness of the worker is irrelevant. If the consumer doesn't care, why should the employer?
Adam Smith and Gordon Gekko thought this is no problem. I don't know what the answer is , but to simply deny your own responsibility and your own involvement isn't for sure.
And to make it very clear, without much hope of getting my message through I admit:
I am NOT on their side, I could not care less for this company, I have no clue if there will a COS 17 , all I know is that we declined a contract for more money because some lawyer did not like the fine print. Which they never do, that is their business model! Some of you declined it because it did not "feel" right, because you wanted to "show them". Like Brexit or Trump, you voted against something without considering the consequences, you let your emotions control your life.
All I want is as much as possible for me. For MY time sitting in this ****ty metal tube and wasting my life.
Stop this silly crusade, and don't lose target.
This is business.
Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 2nd Jul 2017 at 03:50.
