Cathay Interview Change?
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36,000 + 10,000 for a Second Officer.
If you're joining as a First officer, it's 81,000 + 14,000 housing, but before tax
(15% normally, double tax the first year), hardly 100,000 HKD after tax!
I have yet to meet a DEFO, but yes, it works for a single guy and even is a decent salary. Not so much to take care of a family.
If you come as a DEFO, it means you have experience, maybe a command already and might be employable in a major back home. I'd say lifestyle on starting salary would be similar to your current lifestyle in your home country, except you won't be able to buy a place, and the place you will be renting will be much smaller than the one you have in your home country (half the size at the most).
Please, just don't complain to me afterwards about how life is expensive in HK, how your (future) wife hates the pollution or how hard it is to commute.
I wish someone could post the letter written by one of our new hires to the AoA, complaining about how difficult he's having it on his current salary.
To live comfortably, I'd say you would need that same basic salary + 65,000HKD as housing in order to rent a place almost as big as the one you have back home. So 145,000HKD
If you're joining as a First officer, it's 81,000 + 14,000 housing, but before tax
(15% normally, double tax the first year), hardly 100,000 HKD after tax!
I have yet to meet a DEFO, but yes, it works for a single guy and even is a decent salary. Not so much to take care of a family.
If you come as a DEFO, it means you have experience, maybe a command already and might be employable in a major back home. I'd say lifestyle on starting salary would be similar to your current lifestyle in your home country, except you won't be able to buy a place, and the place you will be renting will be much smaller than the one you have in your home country (half the size at the most).
Please, just don't complain to me afterwards about how life is expensive in HK, how your (future) wife hates the pollution or how hard it is to commute.
I wish someone could post the letter written by one of our new hires to the AoA, complaining about how difficult he's having it on his current salary.
To live comfortably, I'd say you would need that same basic salary + 65,000HKD as housing in order to rent a place almost as big as the one you have back home. So 145,000HKD
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well there is a family in who live the green life and only spend 8000 hkd..per month... it can be done.
How a ?green living? Hong Kong family survives on HK$8,000 monthly | South China Morning Post
If you fancy a bachelor pad on hong kong island.. there is a new project in Wan Chai..North Point etc... Hong kong newest edition bachelor pads..
One Prestige project at Yuet Yuen Street in North Point.
Measuring 163 sq ft in floor area, the apartment will be the tiniest available on Hong Kong island when completed in August 2018. Each studio unit comprises a 60 sq ft bedroom that doubles as a dining area, a 20 sq ft bathroom, and an open kitchen. Half of the studio’s available space is taken up by a standard bed measuring 6 feet by 4, plus a sofa.
Prices for the 33-storey apartment with 207 units have not been revealed.
However, One Prestige is not even the title holder for smallest unit size in the Hong Kong SAR.
That dubious honour goes to the AVA62 apartments in Jordan, north of Victoria Harbour in Kowloon. Each unit in AVA62, built by Wisdom Gaining, measures 152 sq ft, including a 21 sq ft balcony. Despite its size, AVA62 sells for about HK$20,000 (2500USD) per square feet, putting the average unit at about HK$3 million (400000 USD).
Hong Kong developers rush to build ever smaller homes, but buyer beware | South China Morning Post
How a ?green living? Hong Kong family survives on HK$8,000 monthly | South China Morning Post
If you fancy a bachelor pad on hong kong island.. there is a new project in Wan Chai..North Point etc... Hong kong newest edition bachelor pads..
One Prestige project at Yuet Yuen Street in North Point.
Measuring 163 sq ft in floor area, the apartment will be the tiniest available on Hong Kong island when completed in August 2018. Each studio unit comprises a 60 sq ft bedroom that doubles as a dining area, a 20 sq ft bathroom, and an open kitchen. Half of the studio’s available space is taken up by a standard bed measuring 6 feet by 4, plus a sofa.
Prices for the 33-storey apartment with 207 units have not been revealed.
However, One Prestige is not even the title holder for smallest unit size in the Hong Kong SAR.
That dubious honour goes to the AVA62 apartments in Jordan, north of Victoria Harbour in Kowloon. Each unit in AVA62, built by Wisdom Gaining, measures 152 sq ft, including a 21 sq ft balcony. Despite its size, AVA62 sells for about HK$20,000 (2500USD) per square feet, putting the average unit at about HK$3 million (400000 USD).
Hong Kong developers rush to build ever smaller homes, but buyer beware | South China Morning Post
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Coming from the unmentionable desert airline, whenever we are in Hong Kong everyone says they same thing. We can't believe how expensive it is going out for dinner and drinks in some fairly average places in the Mid Levels. I would say that our perspective of what is cheap and expensive is already a little skewed as our home base is not particularly cheap either.
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Hi PFVSPNF et al,
I apologise. I've had a busy month and no time to prune. Coming back to this thread late but PFV you've asked someone to 'show you the numbers otherwise' so here is a quick rundown.
Let's take a salary of net 100,000 HKD after taxes are paid
One bedroom in central or Kowloon side ?
Seeing anything between 17,000-30,000. Let's average at 25,000?
Daily food and beverages , let's assume 900 HKD a day ? Don't think people actually spend this much , especially if they are flying long haul .
Phone tv internet I read is quite cheap let's put it on the higher end 1000 per month ?
Utilities another 2000 per month ?
Transport another 3000?
Miscellaneous another 10,000?
That sums up to 68,000 , I'll round it up to 70,000hkd for your expenses .
Gives you 30k of savings which is $3,861 USD.
Am I missing something here ?
First... you won't hit $100,000HKD after tax until you become a skipper... which will be around 12+ years regardless of whether you join as a DEFO or SO. If you join as an DEFO $81k salary + $14k housing = $95k... minus 17% tax = $79k. So there is $21k of your $30k projected savings gone right away. Even after 10years you will top out on the FO pay scales at less than $100k (inc housing) after tax. If you join as an SO you are further in the hurt locker at half that.
The rest of your numbers are in the realms of reasonableness however depending upon how you want to live, your food and your miscellaneous needs to be higher. If you want to sit at home every night by yourself and eat 'local' chinese then you will be fine. BUT if you want to head out with your new friends for dinner and a drink - $2000/per night (on an average night - not big). Lunch and a couple of beers - $500. You've gobbled up your entire miscellaneous in only 4 (small) nights and 4 lunches out - in a month. Want to eat nice food at home? Milk or meat or fruit are 3-4 times more expensive than the USA. Do you like driving a car? Petrol is almost $7.50USD/gal. Buy some clothes? (Does that come out of miscellaneous?) A Movie? Haircut? Soap? New computer? iPad? New phone? A concert? A hobby? (miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous?) You get the point. It's the little things here that drain your savings. That extra money will disappear quick. But it is doable as a single guy.
But now here is the catch. Assuming you like chicks, are an average likeable guy, and aren't butt ugly... by the time you are approaching the magical $100k (post tax) figure at 12yrs from now, chances are you have a wife and kid(s) (because hey... even for the devoutly "I'm just coming to HK as a single guy" crowd... few people stay single forever!). Hell... your kids could be 6 or 8 yrs old by now! And now you are going backwards. The first place I rented with my missus 10+yrs ago was a 2 bedroom in town. It cost me $30k/mth (10yrs ago!). You want somewhere OK for your family (roughly 1/4 the size of a place in the USA)? $40k+. Want a yard for your kids to run in? Forget it. Most don't have one (or pay $55k+). School - after my $50k entry levy/child (thats one of the cheap ones!) - and after CX's contribution - I'm still out of pocket $8400/mth /child! (Thats not including all the little school extras).
Now here's where people say "I'll just do a few years here and then leave and get a gig elsewhere after I get my big shiny jet ticket"... in which case I say, if you've got good enough quals for a DEFO gig at CX, chances are you'll be able to get on seniority list at a major in the states - and if not now, maybe in another year or two? As far as I know airlines are about seniority (well... not really at Cathay... it means very little - talk to all the SO guys who have been screwed by DEFO's previously, or 747 guys who can't bid off their fleet in accordance with their seniority only to watch DEFO new joiners guys take the spots they want on Airbus - seniority here means squat... but I digress)... so IN OTHER major airlines seniority means something... so why would you waste 5-10yrs of it here only to go home and join at the bottom and start all over again.
But in the end... after all the money is tallied - and whether you are ahead or behind financially - what it really comes down to is "Are you happy here?" and "How much sacrifice do you make to (not) get ahead?" Family? Friends? Job satisfaction? Health? Lifestyle? Hobbies? And for more and more guys, as the screws are tightened in one area (finances or job satisfaction or work life balance) it makes it harder to justify the sacrifices in other areas (family or friends or lifestyle).
Anyway... I've tried to keep my post relatively factual and hopefully helpful. If you still want to take the gig no problems... no need to justify it to me... it's your decision to make... I'm just providing the facts as requested.
I apologise. I've had a busy month and no time to prune. Coming back to this thread late but PFV you've asked someone to 'show you the numbers otherwise' so here is a quick rundown.
Let's take a salary of net 100,000 HKD after taxes are paid
One bedroom in central or Kowloon side ?
Seeing anything between 17,000-30,000. Let's average at 25,000?
Daily food and beverages , let's assume 900 HKD a day ? Don't think people actually spend this much , especially if they are flying long haul .
Phone tv internet I read is quite cheap let's put it on the higher end 1000 per month ?
Utilities another 2000 per month ?
Transport another 3000?
Miscellaneous another 10,000?
That sums up to 68,000 , I'll round it up to 70,000hkd for your expenses .
Gives you 30k of savings which is $3,861 USD.
Am I missing something here ?
First... you won't hit $100,000HKD after tax until you become a skipper... which will be around 12+ years regardless of whether you join as a DEFO or SO. If you join as an DEFO $81k salary + $14k housing = $95k... minus 17% tax = $79k. So there is $21k of your $30k projected savings gone right away. Even after 10years you will top out on the FO pay scales at less than $100k (inc housing) after tax. If you join as an SO you are further in the hurt locker at half that.
The rest of your numbers are in the realms of reasonableness however depending upon how you want to live, your food and your miscellaneous needs to be higher. If you want to sit at home every night by yourself and eat 'local' chinese then you will be fine. BUT if you want to head out with your new friends for dinner and a drink - $2000/per night (on an average night - not big). Lunch and a couple of beers - $500. You've gobbled up your entire miscellaneous in only 4 (small) nights and 4 lunches out - in a month. Want to eat nice food at home? Milk or meat or fruit are 3-4 times more expensive than the USA. Do you like driving a car? Petrol is almost $7.50USD/gal. Buy some clothes? (Does that come out of miscellaneous?) A Movie? Haircut? Soap? New computer? iPad? New phone? A concert? A hobby? (miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous? miscellaneous?) You get the point. It's the little things here that drain your savings. That extra money will disappear quick. But it is doable as a single guy.
But now here is the catch. Assuming you like chicks, are an average likeable guy, and aren't butt ugly... by the time you are approaching the magical $100k (post tax) figure at 12yrs from now, chances are you have a wife and kid(s) (because hey... even for the devoutly "I'm just coming to HK as a single guy" crowd... few people stay single forever!). Hell... your kids could be 6 or 8 yrs old by now! And now you are going backwards. The first place I rented with my missus 10+yrs ago was a 2 bedroom in town. It cost me $30k/mth (10yrs ago!). You want somewhere OK for your family (roughly 1/4 the size of a place in the USA)? $40k+. Want a yard for your kids to run in? Forget it. Most don't have one (or pay $55k+). School - after my $50k entry levy/child (thats one of the cheap ones!) - and after CX's contribution - I'm still out of pocket $8400/mth /child! (Thats not including all the little school extras).
Now here's where people say "I'll just do a few years here and then leave and get a gig elsewhere after I get my big shiny jet ticket"... in which case I say, if you've got good enough quals for a DEFO gig at CX, chances are you'll be able to get on seniority list at a major in the states - and if not now, maybe in another year or two? As far as I know airlines are about seniority (well... not really at Cathay... it means very little - talk to all the SO guys who have been screwed by DEFO's previously, or 747 guys who can't bid off their fleet in accordance with their seniority only to watch DEFO new joiners guys take the spots they want on Airbus - seniority here means squat... but I digress)... so IN OTHER major airlines seniority means something... so why would you waste 5-10yrs of it here only to go home and join at the bottom and start all over again.
But in the end... after all the money is tallied - and whether you are ahead or behind financially - what it really comes down to is "Are you happy here?" and "How much sacrifice do you make to (not) get ahead?" Family? Friends? Job satisfaction? Health? Lifestyle? Hobbies? And for more and more guys, as the screws are tightened in one area (finances or job satisfaction or work life balance) it makes it harder to justify the sacrifices in other areas (family or friends or lifestyle).
Anyway... I've tried to keep my post relatively factual and hopefully helpful. If you still want to take the gig no problems... no need to justify it to me... it's your decision to make... I'm just providing the facts as requested.
