Time to Annoy!
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 87
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From: Down South
Time to Annoy!
From the recent Line Ops Newsletter:
"We should be pestering ATC for direct routing, further climb or suggesting proactive strategies to permit higher levels."
Pestering? Really?
Pester: Trouble or annoy (someone) with frequent or persistent requests or interruptions
Or, how about, "Request that you turn the aircraft in front of us 30 degrees off track so that we can climb."
"We should be pestering ATC for direct routing, further climb or suggesting proactive strategies to permit higher levels."
Pestering? Really?
Pester: Trouble or annoy (someone) with frequent or persistent requests or interruptions
Or, how about, "Request that you turn the aircraft in front of us 30 degrees off track so that we can climb."
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 725
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From: VHHH Ocean 2D
More unproffesionalism from the third floor. Where egomaniacs with make-beleive empires pen their thoughts and memoirs in newsletters with silly names.
It is very clear what legal documentation is to be used. And speaking of which, OPS-A is very clear on what constitutes "nuisance" radio calls.
It is very clear what legal documentation is to be used. And speaking of which, OPS-A is very clear on what constitutes "nuisance" radio calls.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 5
From: London
The last thrashing throes of a dying empire. Pathetic and sad. Besides, as i'm being paid by the hour, every minute on the block time counts. If there is overtime in it for any crew member, then I will find a way to 'legally' maximise the block time....for safety's sake of course. 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 507
Likes: 43
From: US
Mmmmmm....gets the big fat "Meh."
Or 'Noted'
Most of us operate prudently and efficiently and it's called being a pilot. Problem becomes when some bright inexperienced enterprising up and coming star tries to 'pester' in an environment where it's not welcome (like perhaps New York, Chicago, San Fran, Los Angeles or any other busy place). Controllers do a magnificent job there and pretty well know that pilots don't like droning and wasting gas. But there are a whole bunch of other airplanes and you are one of very many (with a limited picture on what is going on).
And then we become 'that' airline--which can be counterproductive in the long run.
Some have already discovered the perils of not knowing about the sandbox you are playing in while at the same time thinking the world revolves around you.
So the bottom line as always is keep your SA up, know where you are playing, realize the world doesn't always revolve around YOU, operate prudently as you always do, and do the right things.
Probably didn't need an article to tell us that.......
Or 'Noted'
Most of us operate prudently and efficiently and it's called being a pilot. Problem becomes when some bright inexperienced enterprising up and coming star tries to 'pester' in an environment where it's not welcome (like perhaps New York, Chicago, San Fran, Los Angeles or any other busy place). Controllers do a magnificent job there and pretty well know that pilots don't like droning and wasting gas. But there are a whole bunch of other airplanes and you are one of very many (with a limited picture on what is going on).
And then we become 'that' airline--which can be counterproductive in the long run.
Some have already discovered the perils of not knowing about the sandbox you are playing in while at the same time thinking the world revolves around you.
So the bottom line as always is keep your SA up, know where you are playing, realize the world doesn't always revolve around YOU, operate prudently as you always do, and do the right things.
Probably didn't need an article to tell us that.......
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
From: Polar Route
... almost as dumb as yelling "Attitude/Stall, Disengage,..." while recovering from an upset attitude or stall. How about we just act like pilots who recover with the blue side up and enough airspeed to fly the airplane? This place is retarded. As ever, CX is more interested in what you say than what you do. It's the Cathay version of political correctness. I have no patience for it. We need a cultural revolution at CX. Is Donald Trump too busy to take over as CEO?
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 419
Likes: 18
From: Retired-ville
For our new generation of ear stud wearing, spikey haired brushwingers, who will never have had the fun of a previous life being upside down, intentionally spending their time on the edge of the flight envelope, or even more than 30' AOB, then to have some sort of basic training to recover from an attitude upset may well be a good idea. Especially if you were making a deposit down the back when Sum Ting Wong happens up the front.
Granted that both the sim instructor and I thought this was a load of bollocks, as we are from a generation where it is still instinctive to unload a misbehaving wing, roll, and.....well we just fly the aircraft, because back then, we were taught how to do it, and practiced regularly.
These young fellas coming through now, can quote chapter and verse from ops manuals, but sadly never receive the good handling practice we now take for granted that remains second nature.
From our sim instructor, it does appear all this is being driven by outfits like the FAA, who say if you want to keep flying into Trumpland after 20(18?), then you have to have an auditable recovery program in place.
So if you know what to do, then just do that pilot thing and fly the aircraft and recover.
If you're from that new generation that can't fly without help, then recite the mantra as taught, move the controls to follow the words, good luck and try not to do an AirAsia or AirFrance.
Granted that both the sim instructor and I thought this was a load of bollocks, as we are from a generation where it is still instinctive to unload a misbehaving wing, roll, and.....well we just fly the aircraft, because back then, we were taught how to do it, and practiced regularly.
These young fellas coming through now, can quote chapter and verse from ops manuals, but sadly never receive the good handling practice we now take for granted that remains second nature.
From our sim instructor, it does appear all this is being driven by outfits like the FAA, who say if you want to keep flying into Trumpland after 20(18?), then you have to have an auditable recovery program in place.
So if you know what to do, then just do that pilot thing and fly the aircraft and recover.
If you're from that new generation that can't fly without help, then recite the mantra as taught, move the controls to follow the words, good luck and try not to do an AirAsia or AirFrance.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
From: Polar Route
I've got a novel idea... How about we train them up to our standard rather than drop ourselves down to theirs? When I was a new, young pilot, I came up with all kinds of acronyms and short chants to make sure I did things correctly. Why can't they come up with their own drills? Oh, I almost forgot. This is the snowflake era of spoon feeding, hot chocolate and safe spaces for all those whose feelings get hurt by politically incorrect words.
Last edited by cxorcist; 28th January 2017 at 00:16.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 552
Likes: 22
From: Hong Kong
What more needs be said about a recovery model that focuses on a word like "Stabilized" and completely omits the more important consideration in a word like "Speedbrakes"....?
In a nose-high or stall scenario, the expert will ensure that the speedbrakes are in; while in a nose low scenario, they must be deployed....what does parroting the word "stabilized" accomplish?
And, no, the nose dropping during a stall is not a nose-low unusual attitude FFS.
Talk to those (many among us) that have spent a great deal of time upside down, and avoid the less refined, illogical, weekend-wonder, recovery model.
In a nose-high or stall scenario, the expert will ensure that the speedbrakes are in; while in a nose low scenario, they must be deployed....what does parroting the word "stabilized" accomplish?
And, no, the nose dropping during a stall is not a nose-low unusual attitude FFS.
Talk to those (many among us) that have spent a great deal of time upside down, and avoid the less refined, illogical, weekend-wonder, recovery model.
Last edited by raven11; 28th January 2017 at 00:53.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Hong kong
Well I suppose we could change our call sign to airforce 1 , that should get rid of any delays and level restrictions. May raise a few sceptical eyebrows though .
Or alternatively politely tell the aircraft in front of us that we are using expensive fuel so could he please play nicely and descend so we can have his level .
After reading all the data about radiation I think that I will just stay alive and stick to lower levels .
A few years ago we had one of the US ATC managers on board , travelling in EY , did we grant them an involuntary upgrade . Hell NO they took the flight in EY .
How much goodwill would have been generated with a simple upgrade .
Try pestering Chicago ATC for better slots , or runways. you will very quickly find yourself in the sin bin . We have a pretty good reputation with USA ATC why try and ruin it?
There is no one to blame for this situation except the fuel hedgers and management . Let them deal with it , it's their mess
Or alternatively politely tell the aircraft in front of us that we are using expensive fuel so could he please play nicely and descend so we can have his level .
After reading all the data about radiation I think that I will just stay alive and stick to lower levels .
A few years ago we had one of the US ATC managers on board , travelling in EY , did we grant them an involuntary upgrade . Hell NO they took the flight in EY .
How much goodwill would have been generated with a simple upgrade .
Try pestering Chicago ATC for better slots , or runways. you will very quickly find yourself in the sin bin . We have a pretty good reputation with USA ATC why try and ruin it?
There is no one to blame for this situation except the fuel hedgers and management . Let them deal with it , it's their mess
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 134
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From: America
You know what annoys me? The fact that a long time whiner and winger, that was openly for contract compliance and against guys/gals taking check and training positions, just became a Captain. I read it and thought, how and why did this happen. This place is sick like that. Guys will walk over the bodies of others to get ahead. I've never seen a place like this. They then complain about it. I hear guys, like that French ****, complain now about his roster and the training department. I hear a lot of new Captains complain about their rosters but MB is going to be a doozie. He has been hostile towards members and now he gets promoted. I honestly think the company loves people like him because he will keep us fighting amongst ourselves and will bollock and harass the new joiners or those taking promotions. The other guy is about to be fired btw.
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 875
Likes: 27
From: Gerloz
Yes that must be a different MB from the one exhorting us not to accept any form of upgrade, including command ones. Isn't moral high ground a wonderful thing ? Re the other individual. Again high handed posts on aoa forums advising us on how to behave; then performs the ultimate volte-face ( pun intended). The industry is full of poachers turned gamekeeper ( it used to be a senior management requirement here to have had at least some position of import in the union; that and a guiding hand from the Lodge, nudge nudge, wink, wink, on the square).
Re. the individual about to get fired. Do tell us more ?
Re. the individual about to get fired. Do tell us more ?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Reminds me of an exchange between a CX and another:
CX: xxxx when can you climb?
Other: We're at max weight and can't climb for hours.
CX: So you can't vacate your level?
Other: No.
CX: Well, thanks a lot, xxxx, thanks a lot!
At the time I thought 'Some mothers do have them'.
CX: xxxx when can you climb?
Other: We're at max weight and can't climb for hours.
CX: So you can't vacate your level?
Other: No.
CX: Well, thanks a lot, xxxx, thanks a lot!
At the time I thought 'Some mothers do have them'.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
From: HKG
Funniest I heard was,
LAX Star, Line Ops Manager asking FO to request high speed. FO says doesn't happen don't ask. LOM insists. ATC goes silent then says "CX turn onto 270hdg, go as fast as you like, let me know when you want to make an approach"
LAX Star, Line Ops Manager asking FO to request high speed. FO says doesn't happen don't ask. LOM insists. ATC goes silent then says "CX turn onto 270hdg, go as fast as you like, let me know when you want to make an approach"
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 0
Likes: 1
From: Polar Route
Busy B, thanks for a good laugh. That sounds about right. CX wants the world to conform to it. Maybe that is part of the reason we can't make money in one of the world's most profitable airline markets. Sad!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 743
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From: Hong Kong