CX Recruitment Ban
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CX Recruitment Ban
My question is, just how many people are taking notice of the recruitment ban? Has anyone tunred their back and accepted an offer of employment.
I am just very curious as to what the real figure is.
MG
I am just very curious as to what the real figure is.
MG
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know how many have fallen for the lies and intimidation of the HKAOA, but all courses are full until about March next year (when actively starting new joiners, 20 start per month)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good to hear it....just wait 'till the union tossers start posting....if indeed they really are......aka Frankg, kaptin M etc....etc..oops had to edit....almost forgot Kubota
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: everywhere
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was wondering if CX hires people of Asian decent who are below the pub. 1000 tt. I have heard rumours, and I am curious to see if it is at all true. If anyone would reply it would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: To: From: To: From:
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Almost all our cadets have no flying time at all when they start but you need at least to have Hong Kong permanent residency or (in some cases) be an employee of Cathay Pacific with a work visa. To the best of my knowledge, Cathay has never hired anyone with less than 1000 hours as an F/O or S/O, irrespective of national or ethnic origin, despite the rumours.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: To: From: To: From:
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Butt, come on down...
We're waiting for the overopinionated loudmouth from the sandpit with '57 time. I can hardly wait. What a fun time we'll have...you, me, two long-time AOA members and a 14-hour HKG-YYZ sector.
We're waiting for the overopinionated loudmouth from the sandpit with '57 time. I can hardly wait. What a fun time we'll have...you, me, two long-time AOA members and a 14-hour HKG-YYZ sector.
Last edited by Kubota; 8th Jul 2002 at 04:34.
Kubota-san
No need to rise to Butt and Burger Thing...they have each other...probably 50yo meat meets 30yo buns....
On a more sober note, it is time for some serious change of approach before the typhoon season starts in earnest and the collective fuses burn very low again.
The reason the house always wins is that they have more time and money than each of us individually. The reason Kerry Packer wins is that the position is reversed. The first rule of gambling is, don't do it unless you have more time and money than the casino.
Realistically therefore the AOA position as it stands is untenable. Many might think that ND stepping off the stage will get things back on track. Afterall it has been widely quoted that senior management won't talk while ND is in the chair. The reality is that they won't talk as long as ND or anyone who espouses the view that the AOA is anymore than the 'Buena Vista Social Club'
is in the chair.
We all know that senior management choose not too engage in any meaningful manner. This is partly personality driven but if you recall, DT's predecessor used to engage, but that in itself didn't help when the gravy train was derailed and they wanted some of their carriages back.
In order for a sustainable dialogue to exist and in order to create an environment where genuine concerns are at least acknowledged, we are all going to have to let management be on top in this romp.
Charles Dickens would have felt right at home, but there it is...
As you so succinctly described with your two pail analogy, we do have a choice but in terms of how we get more of the green and less of the brown...Oliver Twist is, I am very much afraid, the least pungent option.
No need to rise to Butt and Burger Thing...they have each other...probably 50yo meat meets 30yo buns....
On a more sober note, it is time for some serious change of approach before the typhoon season starts in earnest and the collective fuses burn very low again.
The reason the house always wins is that they have more time and money than each of us individually. The reason Kerry Packer wins is that the position is reversed. The first rule of gambling is, don't do it unless you have more time and money than the casino.
Realistically therefore the AOA position as it stands is untenable. Many might think that ND stepping off the stage will get things back on track. Afterall it has been widely quoted that senior management won't talk while ND is in the chair. The reality is that they won't talk as long as ND or anyone who espouses the view that the AOA is anymore than the 'Buena Vista Social Club'
is in the chair.
We all know that senior management choose not too engage in any meaningful manner. This is partly personality driven but if you recall, DT's predecessor used to engage, but that in itself didn't help when the gravy train was derailed and they wanted some of their carriages back.
In order for a sustainable dialogue to exist and in order to create an environment where genuine concerns are at least acknowledged, we are all going to have to let management be on top in this romp.
Charles Dickens would have felt right at home, but there it is...
As you so succinctly described with your two pail analogy, we do have a choice but in terms of how we get more of the green and less of the brown...Oliver Twist is, I am very much afraid, the least pungent option.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Around the World
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VR-HFX, a verry literate response. I like the music of 'Buena Vista Social Club', But whatever your problems are there with your company, it should never ever affect your work in the cockpit. Reading Kubota's statement raised some doubts regarding his attitude to his profession. But then again, it's an anonymous internet forum, and all kind of nonsense is posted here anyway. Maye Kubota is in reality a nice guy.
Cheers
But whatever your problems are there with your company, it should never ever affect your work in the cockpit. Reading Kubota's statement raised some doubts regarding his attitude to his profession. But then again, it's an anonymous internet forum, and all kind of nonsense is posted here anyway. Maye Kubota is in reality a nice guy. Cheers
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like I've said before ,
People are joining fast and the non union members are increasing, unless some of the unionists are willing to swallow their pride and "retreat and re-group", nothing is going to be achieved besides a good old mexican stand off.
Like a spoilt brat the AOA and some of it's militant members are digging their heels in to the detrement of everyone else in the company.
Will you people ever see the light?
FAN MAN
People are joining fast and the non union members are increasing, unless some of the unionists are willing to swallow their pride and "retreat and re-group", nothing is going to be achieved besides a good old mexican stand off.
Like a spoilt brat the AOA and some of it's militant members are digging their heels in to the detrement of everyone else in the company.
Will you people ever see the light?
FAN MAN
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Costa del Thames
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We're waiting for the overopinionated loudmouth from the sandpit with '57 time. I can hardly wait. What a fun time we'll have...you, me, two long-time AOA members and a 14-hour HKG-YYZ sector.
Very civilized..
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THE THREE STOOGES
I find it quite amusing that there are only 4 or 5 people that are continuously posting on pprune in favour of the recruitment ban.
It just goes to show how weak their childish ploys are, and the lack of support from fellow CX pilots.
PPRUNE is a gateway for pilots from all over the world to join together , share information and release aviation related news.
Out of 1600 or so CX pilots the same old three stooges are posting the same old garbage , with threats of intimidation. There seems to be a major lack of support here from other CX drivers. Obviously they do not support the ban , because if they did they would be doing what they can to spread the word and support the cause.
Very few are.
Can I just clap my hands a few times and say “BRAVO BRAVO” what a wonderful job you’ve done and how successful your ploys have been. The support you have is overwhelming.
365 days have passed and you’re becoming more divided day by day. Excellent work folks you must be proud. You sit here and post your rubbish , threaten new hires , ring up guys in the middle of the night and before you know it , you’ll be asking for their help once you finally wake up to yourselves and realise that the company has met their objectives and divided you all.
Call me old and silly but , you folks need a reality check and the sooner you wake up the better.
I’ve never once agreed with the sackings of the 49’ers, but at least I can assess the situation objectively.
FAN MAN
It just goes to show how weak their childish ploys are, and the lack of support from fellow CX pilots.
PPRUNE is a gateway for pilots from all over the world to join together , share information and release aviation related news.
Out of 1600 or so CX pilots the same old three stooges are posting the same old garbage , with threats of intimidation. There seems to be a major lack of support here from other CX drivers. Obviously they do not support the ban , because if they did they would be doing what they can to spread the word and support the cause.
Very few are.
Can I just clap my hands a few times and say “BRAVO BRAVO” what a wonderful job you’ve done and how successful your ploys have been. The support you have is overwhelming.
365 days have passed and you’re becoming more divided day by day. Excellent work folks you must be proud. You sit here and post your rubbish , threaten new hires , ring up guys in the middle of the night and before you know it , you’ll be asking for their help once you finally wake up to yourselves and realise that the company has met their objectives and divided you all.
Call me old and silly but , you folks need a reality check and the sooner you wake up the better.
I’ve never once agreed with the sackings of the 49’ers, but at least I can assess the situation objectively.
FAN MAN
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yup can picture it...would most certainly need a pair of wellies....and when the fuel control switches were closed at the gate...you 3 would still be whining
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: the rez
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well then that says it. Can't expect any support from colleagues in the industry, ones that post here anyway. You know the same can be said the other way Fan Fag. Over 100,000 IFALPA members haven't come on here in opposition to the ban either, just you lot. What is it 5 or 6?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Seems that the same - "I find it quite amusing that there are only 4 or 5 people that are continuously posting on pprune...AGAINST the recruitment ban." - might be thrown back at YOU, The Fan Man, for those wishing to check registration dates.
Add to YOUR list of favourities our resident F/E, TinAss, whose highly intelligent
posts ALWAYS add SO much to the direction of the debate.
The "Recruitment Ban" has - and IS - well publicised.
I doubt that there would be a pilot (who is qualified to apply) ANYWHERE in the world who is NOT aware of it.
Without a doubt, the ban has SEVERELY limited the QUANTITY and QUALITY of applicants to CX, forcing Cathay to accept pilots who would probably have been otherwise UNacceptable.
"Rejects", in a word!
From that aspect, the "Recruitment Ban" can be viewed as being successful!
Add to YOUR list of favourities our resident F/E, TinAss, whose highly intelligent
posts ALWAYS add SO much to the direction of the debate. The "Recruitment Ban" has - and IS - well publicised.
I doubt that there would be a pilot (who is qualified to apply) ANYWHERE in the world who is NOT aware of it.
Without a doubt, the ban has SEVERELY limited the QUANTITY and QUALITY of applicants to CX, forcing Cathay to accept pilots who would probably have been otherwise UNacceptable.
"Rejects", in a word!
From that aspect, the "Recruitment Ban" can be viewed as being successful!
Fan Man
Best stay away from CX..I would hate to see you to run into the pail of brown stuff...
Your post is simplistic and naive.
To be frank, it is only a small group who can be bothered trying to explain the situation to a similarly small group that appears it does not wish to be confused with facts.
One year ago a core sample was taken from the pilot community and disposed of in a manner that defies one of the basic precepts of human decency. Namely due process.
Noone in the pilot body at the time knew the background to all the cases. Noone personally knew more than a handful of the people who were terminated.
Noone is pretending that we do not have the occasional odd-ball in our midst from time to time.
BUT EVERYONE in the body of the CX pilot community was appalled at the method by which these executions were carried out. It was as if we were all kicked in the you know whats at the same time (with the greatest respect to the ladies now in our midst).
Following the initial shock there was naturally a backlash, a normal human reaction to strike back. Regrettably ( with the benefit of hindsight) this reaction was tempered by a number of things:
A residual of goodwill in the ranks toward the company.
A professional ethic that says we are not really a bunch of thugs.
A belief that these executions were a negotiating tactic and not irreversible given due process AND
Genuine fear.
It gradually became apparent (again with the benefit of hindsight) that management had made a conscious strategic decision to crush the AOA and reduce it to a creche handling social events and a library resource for those wanting to read up on 18 tyre wet runway performance or how to moderate your sleep patterns with vodka.
Wounded and frightened, the AOA decided it could not withdraw its labour, so it tried to incite the bull to have another charge by hanging little yellow and black ribbons everywhere. Martyrdom became a strategy ˇŠ Gandhi the script.
I wonˇÕt re-hash all the facts that have been well documented, but suffice it to say, a Mexican standoff ensued.
September 11 created an opportunity for all sides to get together again but they failed to do so in any meaningful way. If you want some material for a new ˇŌYes Prime MinsterˇÕ series, listen to the CD of the exploratory meeting between the AOA and management that took place late October last. An exercise in pedantry at best.
What we have today is a marriage on its last gasp. No communication creates the appearance of relative calm. It is in reality the manifestation of a total breakdown in the relationship. The thin thread that remains is perhaps a romantic attachment to the CX of old and a naÉ×e belief that, given enough counseling, the marriage can be saved. The other party appears to be arguing the case that there never was a marriage in law or de-facto. The relationship was, is and should forever more be master and servant.
The IFALPA ban is another manifestation of the yellow ribbon strategy.
The bull however refuses to charge. Instead it stands, snorting, scraping the dust and staring. It has no interest in having all those little annoying
banderilla stuck in its neck. Eventually the crowd will go home and the bull will once again be master of the ring.
CX used to be a mixed but generally happy band of campers doing their best to ensure that the rusty old bolts kept flying. The rusty old bolts were all replaced by shiny new equipment and the shed at Kai Tak by a gleaming new edifice at CLK affectionately referred to as Hello Kitty City.
The hardware is what you will all see first. And splendid and alluring it is. The software deficiencies, however, only become apparent once you have entered the lobster pot.
FWIW, the IFALPA ban does at least give you all cause and opportunity to look beyond the hardware and make a more informed decision.
No IFALPA ban and you would all blunder blind into the very same environment and in all probability, just as hostile a working environment.
As I have stated previously, I believe the AOA cannot win this fracas. History tells us this and the HK backdrop guarantees it.
Many of my colleagues wear their hearts on their sleeve. The attempts of a few on this forum to educate should not be taken out of context. They are not trying to intimidate those trying to scale the parapets but more to let you know what is on the other side.
At the end of the day, we all make our own decisions. Make sure yours is an informed one.
Should you decide to come make sure you leave your opinions and personalities at home. And , donˇÕt forget the peg for the nose.
Best stay away from CX..I would hate to see you to run into the pail of brown stuff...
Your post is simplistic and naive.
To be frank, it is only a small group who can be bothered trying to explain the situation to a similarly small group that appears it does not wish to be confused with facts.
One year ago a core sample was taken from the pilot community and disposed of in a manner that defies one of the basic precepts of human decency. Namely due process.
Noone in the pilot body at the time knew the background to all the cases. Noone personally knew more than a handful of the people who were terminated.
Noone is pretending that we do not have the occasional odd-ball in our midst from time to time.
BUT EVERYONE in the body of the CX pilot community was appalled at the method by which these executions were carried out. It was as if we were all kicked in the you know whats at the same time (with the greatest respect to the ladies now in our midst).
Following the initial shock there was naturally a backlash, a normal human reaction to strike back. Regrettably ( with the benefit of hindsight) this reaction was tempered by a number of things:
A residual of goodwill in the ranks toward the company.
A professional ethic that says we are not really a bunch of thugs.
A belief that these executions were a negotiating tactic and not irreversible given due process AND
Genuine fear.
It gradually became apparent (again with the benefit of hindsight) that management had made a conscious strategic decision to crush the AOA and reduce it to a creche handling social events and a library resource for those wanting to read up on 18 tyre wet runway performance or how to moderate your sleep patterns with vodka.
Wounded and frightened, the AOA decided it could not withdraw its labour, so it tried to incite the bull to have another charge by hanging little yellow and black ribbons everywhere. Martyrdom became a strategy ˇŠ Gandhi the script.
I wonˇÕt re-hash all the facts that have been well documented, but suffice it to say, a Mexican standoff ensued.
September 11 created an opportunity for all sides to get together again but they failed to do so in any meaningful way. If you want some material for a new ˇŌYes Prime MinsterˇÕ series, listen to the CD of the exploratory meeting between the AOA and management that took place late October last. An exercise in pedantry at best.
What we have today is a marriage on its last gasp. No communication creates the appearance of relative calm. It is in reality the manifestation of a total breakdown in the relationship. The thin thread that remains is perhaps a romantic attachment to the CX of old and a naÉ×e belief that, given enough counseling, the marriage can be saved. The other party appears to be arguing the case that there never was a marriage in law or de-facto. The relationship was, is and should forever more be master and servant.
The IFALPA ban is another manifestation of the yellow ribbon strategy.
The bull however refuses to charge. Instead it stands, snorting, scraping the dust and staring. It has no interest in having all those little annoying
banderilla stuck in its neck. Eventually the crowd will go home and the bull will once again be master of the ring.
CX used to be a mixed but generally happy band of campers doing their best to ensure that the rusty old bolts kept flying. The rusty old bolts were all replaced by shiny new equipment and the shed at Kai Tak by a gleaming new edifice at CLK affectionately referred to as Hello Kitty City.
The hardware is what you will all see first. And splendid and alluring it is. The software deficiencies, however, only become apparent once you have entered the lobster pot.
FWIW, the IFALPA ban does at least give you all cause and opportunity to look beyond the hardware and make a more informed decision.
No IFALPA ban and you would all blunder blind into the very same environment and in all probability, just as hostile a working environment.
As I have stated previously, I believe the AOA cannot win this fracas. History tells us this and the HK backdrop guarantees it.
Many of my colleagues wear their hearts on their sleeve. The attempts of a few on this forum to educate should not be taken out of context. They are not trying to intimidate those trying to scale the parapets but more to let you know what is on the other side.
At the end of the day, we all make our own decisions. Make sure yours is an informed one.
Should you decide to come make sure you leave your opinions and personalities at home. And , donˇÕt forget the peg for the nose.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 10th Jul 2002 at 03:30.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: AUS
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a question and this is NOT a go at either 'side' in this argument as I am still reading and learing all i can about what is in place. I do not yet meet the requirements for any major's around the place but I would like to know how long this ban and its associated affects are going to continue to affect young guys coming through the industry. I mean in a year or two having done nearly half a decade in GA am I/we supposed to still hang around till something that happened years ago is sorted?
It seems sad that people will go to a company when there is a recruitment ban in place but by the same token they are probably sick of GA and the associated VERY low pay and conditions and other people are going to join and take the spots then why shouldnt they??
I guess I just want to know what is in place to help young guys who stick by the ban get a job when its over? When does this all end and is it going to be like another 89 in Aus?
Twin
It seems sad that people will go to a company when there is a recruitment ban in place but by the same token they are probably sick of GA and the associated VERY low pay and conditions and other people are going to join and take the spots then why shouldnt they??
I guess I just want to know what is in place to help young guys who stick by the ban get a job when its over? When does this all end and is it going to be like another 89 in Aus?
Twin
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you for the in-depth post VR-HFX
I am quite aware of the situation and from what friends on mine at CX tell me, good to read your views as well.
At the end of the day some of us will just have to “agree to disagree” some of you at CX feel very differently about the Ban and rightly so for your own reasons.
I guess I could sit here until I turn blue in the face trying to impart my views and those of many others.
At the end of the day there are two groups , Group one strongly in favour of the Ban and Group two ignores the ban due to the hipocracy of it all.
I stand by my word , I disagree with the ban whole heartedly.
Kaptin M…..maybe the M stands for “Militant” , I’ve been reading this forum for years and never felt or had the urge to post , UNTIL all this pathetic industrial attempt entered the world of aviation. So yes I am new to using an internet forum and I enjoy challenging the opinions of people like yourself.
I would like to know, For the poor people that do turn a job down with CX what the hell is being done in writing by the AOA to assure them of future employment with CX , what are the guarantee’s for loyalty from complete strangers?
Anyone? Anyone?
FAN MAN
I am quite aware of the situation and from what friends on mine at CX tell me, good to read your views as well.
At the end of the day some of us will just have to “agree to disagree” some of you at CX feel very differently about the Ban and rightly so for your own reasons.
I guess I could sit here until I turn blue in the face trying to impart my views and those of many others.
At the end of the day there are two groups , Group one strongly in favour of the Ban and Group two ignores the ban due to the hipocracy of it all.
I stand by my word , I disagree with the ban whole heartedly.
Kaptin M…..maybe the M stands for “Militant” , I’ve been reading this forum for years and never felt or had the urge to post , UNTIL all this pathetic industrial attempt entered the world of aviation. So yes I am new to using an internet forum and I enjoy challenging the opinions of people like yourself.
I would like to know, For the poor people that do turn a job down with CX what the hell is being done in writing by the AOA to assure them of future employment with CX , what are the guarantee’s for loyalty from complete strangers?
Anyone? Anyone?
FAN MAN