DEFO straight on to A350
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 428
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From: HKG
DEFO straight on to A350
Training department is putting together a course for DEFOs to go straight on to the A350.
So much for seniority.
Another kick in the balls for the HKG crew flogging away on the 330 hoping for better rosters with the 350.
So much for seniority.
Another kick in the balls for the HKG crew flogging away on the 330 hoping for better rosters with the 350.
Joined: Jul 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,953
Likes: 172
From: with the ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
They have to bait the DEFOs with something. The prospect of life in a dog box in Hong Kong, junior to 3,000 pilots and the best part of two decades to Command would not exactly lead to a stampede to join.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 3rd November 2016 at 01:41.
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 47
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From: Exist
So we voted to reject the last deal and lift our game and did we really expect the company to sit on their hands? Looking at the total picture and the economic environment will we we ever see a deal as good again? Have some of you figured out that we lost and have run out of powder?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere out there...
I'm starting to think that perhaps the AOA is perhaps, maybe, a tiny little bit toothless. The same empty threats have been going on for 15+ years, and nothing has changed. Actually things HAVE changed, for the worse.
Cathay has mastered the art of making things barely attractive enough to stay, and almost !!!!ty enough to drive you out the door. They are the only gig in town and know right well that the upheaval of dragging kids out of school, tearing the missus away from her tai-tai pals in the plaza, and starting somewhere else at the bottom of the seniority list will keep people compliant and obedient. You will be waking up in the middle of the night hearing your kids hacking their lungs up, convincing yourself that this is normal. Guys (and Girls) IT'S ONLY MONEY. You have ONE LIFE. It's ONLY A JOB. You are ONLY A NUMBER ON THE ROSTERING SYSTEM to them, an asset to be sweated, utilized to the limit of functional failure.
The company won't change. I've seen so many people destroy themselves and their loved ones trying to win. Read the 49ers books. JW had amazing determination, got a limited amount of protection for union activity, and justly deserves credit, but at what personal cost? And what has changed?
Cathay has mastered the art of making things barely attractive enough to stay, and almost !!!!ty enough to drive you out the door. They are the only gig in town and know right well that the upheaval of dragging kids out of school, tearing the missus away from her tai-tai pals in the plaza, and starting somewhere else at the bottom of the seniority list will keep people compliant and obedient. You will be waking up in the middle of the night hearing your kids hacking their lungs up, convincing yourself that this is normal. Guys (and Girls) IT'S ONLY MONEY. You have ONE LIFE. It's ONLY A JOB. You are ONLY A NUMBER ON THE ROSTERING SYSTEM to them, an asset to be sweated, utilized to the limit of functional failure.
The company won't change. I've seen so many people destroy themselves and their loved ones trying to win. Read the 49ers books. JW had amazing determination, got a limited amount of protection for union activity, and justly deserves credit, but at what personal cost? And what has changed?
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: America
100% correct busbert. The AOA has spent so much time dividing us we longer stand a chance. The Gen Secs(s), and Presidents ran off Canda and the USA. The special French child fought the fight but has now given in selling us all out. He's not the only one though.
The company has always smashed through our unity and will now trample right over us. Housing will be going and I am already hearing a lot (senior pilots) have already accepted it. Those that can go are but as you said a lot are stuck.
The company has always smashed through our unity and will now trample right over us. Housing will be going and I am already hearing a lot (senior pilots) have already accepted it. Those that can go are but as you said a lot are stuck.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 674
Likes: 10
From: Krug departure, Merlot transition
I'm starting to think that perhaps the AOA is perhaps, maybe, a tiny little bit toothless
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
They stay because frankly money isn't everything and a base in Chengdu or Urumqi doesn't sound so hot when you have a wife and kids. Does that $300,000 include child education allowance, EFP, HDP etc?
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 202
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From: here
"So much for seniority."
Point out the part in Ops A / your COS which specifies new joiners only get to start on a new aircraft when all airbus pilots are converted?
This is a complete beat-up. They are developing a course for people new to the aircraft. I'm not sure why you would think this wouldn't be required?
Point out the part in Ops A / your COS which specifies new joiners only get to start on a new aircraft when all airbus pilots are converted?
This is a complete beat-up. They are developing a course for people new to the aircraft. I'm not sure why you would think this wouldn't be required?
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
From: Planet Earth
I didn't say HK was hot Frank but are you seriously arguing that the Chinese airline contract is more attractive than what we have here? How many of our pilots have left for one of these mega-bucks Chinese contracts exactly?
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 134
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From: America
Frank, your post is of great interest to me. If you would not mind.
Those China jobs are a trick. The pay is mostly bonus based. One slip up and there goes your bonus. Keep in mind it's China. You know a Communist Country with abysmal human rights. They will violate your contract at every turn. What are you going to do, sue them? Like the Middle east you are an expat worker. Do what your told or out you will go!
The process to get the job is a marathon and quite frankly, overkill!! Most do not make it through. The testing and paper work alone would kill anyone. If you do then get hired you are on a 3 year minimum contract. This means you cannot go anywhere else if you don't like it. You will not be a full captain for six months to a year and again one slip, off goes your command AND your pay. It happens all the time.
So you want to commute to China in economy with smoking Chinese as well as share the cockpit with smoking Chinese? I do not mean to be be rude but the mainland Chinese culture is, let's just say different than Western cultures or even Hong Kong! Ever have a riot on a plane, never mind snakes on a plane? It's not fun and will scare the crap out of anyone. Torches and Tridents being hurled at you will make you think twice about China. " I think Brick killed someone with a Trident"
How about if you get sick? Medical benefits and care in China, I would say, are scary at best. Again, unlike Hong Kong.
There is a reason they are looking and not so many are going. Yes, a few, but not really that many. If it were that great this place would be a ghost town but it isn't. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. There are some decent gigs though, Xiamen for one I have heard is ok. Japan is going to open there doors soon but 9 months to a year in training is ridiculous. The giant Kangaroo is hiring again too.
Read the ads for those China jobs. It's full of clauses and various different patterns etc.. It's almost designed to confuse anyone.
I think the best option is going home and flying for a local carrier like a Jet2 or Easyjet etc... Not saying it's a lot better but if you are tired of the Kong and this miserable lot.
https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pi.../CargoLogicAir
Best of luck to everyone I say.
Those China jobs are a trick. The pay is mostly bonus based. One slip up and there goes your bonus. Keep in mind it's China. You know a Communist Country with abysmal human rights. They will violate your contract at every turn. What are you going to do, sue them? Like the Middle east you are an expat worker. Do what your told or out you will go!
The process to get the job is a marathon and quite frankly, overkill!! Most do not make it through. The testing and paper work alone would kill anyone. If you do then get hired you are on a 3 year minimum contract. This means you cannot go anywhere else if you don't like it. You will not be a full captain for six months to a year and again one slip, off goes your command AND your pay. It happens all the time.
So you want to commute to China in economy with smoking Chinese as well as share the cockpit with smoking Chinese? I do not mean to be be rude but the mainland Chinese culture is, let's just say different than Western cultures or even Hong Kong! Ever have a riot on a plane, never mind snakes on a plane? It's not fun and will scare the crap out of anyone. Torches and Tridents being hurled at you will make you think twice about China. " I think Brick killed someone with a Trident"
How about if you get sick? Medical benefits and care in China, I would say, are scary at best. Again, unlike Hong Kong.
There is a reason they are looking and not so many are going. Yes, a few, but not really that many. If it were that great this place would be a ghost town but it isn't. If it sounds too good to be true then it probably is. There are some decent gigs though, Xiamen for one I have heard is ok. Japan is going to open there doors soon but 9 months to a year in training is ridiculous. The giant Kangaroo is hiring again too.
Read the ads for those China jobs. It's full of clauses and various different patterns etc.. It's almost designed to confuse anyone.
I think the best option is going home and flying for a local carrier like a Jet2 or Easyjet etc... Not saying it's a lot better but if you are tired of the Kong and this miserable lot.
https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pi.../CargoLogicAir
Best of luck to everyone I say.
Last edited by The Visionary; 15th November 2016 at 07:09.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Not in a Bus
Anyone under any illusion/delusion that 300k is enough to work a PRC Contract job, you MUST READ THIS, written by a Murrican who went to Tianjin airlines. (Also Hilarious, although extremely irreverent):-
https://www.dropbox.com/s/95yeucll1s...0Down.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/95yeucll1s...0Down.pdf?dl=0