Now Dragonair Direct entry FO.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Wellington
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Can anyone care to comment on the rosters at Dragonair? Is the roster flown as published or subject to change a lot?
Is there any bond for the type ratings? Currently Emirates bond is 5 years
Is there any bond for the type ratings? Currently Emirates bond is 5 years
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Southern China
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Roster changes. How long's a piece of string? They can vary between 4 & 20 per month. Typhoon season and Chinese ATC delays (up to 8hrs waiting for push) are responsible for the worst disruption.
Company help with Stamp Duty, School Debentures, Provisional Tax, etc. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
Commuting and/or Frequent trips home. (Your roster stability question leads me to assume this). No chance. In addition to annual leave, you'll be entitled to 5 consecutive days twice a year and 4 consecutive days off monthly. Both of these are subject to availability. As the most junior pilot/s in rank, in a period of forced expansion with insufficient crew, you'll be the last little piggie at the feed trough. Prognosis negative.
Bond. Nil
Other. Go to the supermarket websites and do your weekly shop to calculate grocery costs. Go to property sites and learn what it's going to cost you to rent. Learn the difference between gross and 'saleable' area. Learn about HK's idea of a Bay window. Mark out the area (not gross) in your current home and realize where you're going to be living. If you think you'll get a car, look at what it costs to rent a car park (yup, they very rarely come with your digs), rego, insurance, fuel, etc.
Long story short, pilot jobs in Hong Kong are only viable for singles and DINKs these days. Like so many other carriers, Hong Kong airlines are playing brinkmanship with salary & conditions, hobbling their own operation manning-wise if it means the ranks they do fill are on a cheap-cheap-lah contract.
Company help with Stamp Duty, School Debentures, Provisional Tax, etc. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha
Commuting and/or Frequent trips home. (Your roster stability question leads me to assume this). No chance. In addition to annual leave, you'll be entitled to 5 consecutive days twice a year and 4 consecutive days off monthly. Both of these are subject to availability. As the most junior pilot/s in rank, in a period of forced expansion with insufficient crew, you'll be the last little piggie at the feed trough. Prognosis negative.
Bond. Nil
Other. Go to the supermarket websites and do your weekly shop to calculate grocery costs. Go to property sites and learn what it's going to cost you to rent. Learn the difference between gross and 'saleable' area. Learn about HK's idea of a Bay window. Mark out the area (not gross) in your current home and realize where you're going to be living. If you think you'll get a car, look at what it costs to rent a car park (yup, they very rarely come with your digs), rego, insurance, fuel, etc.
Long story short, pilot jobs in Hong Kong are only viable for singles and DINKs these days. Like so many other carriers, Hong Kong airlines are playing brinkmanship with salary & conditions, hobbling their own operation manning-wise if it means the ranks they do fill are on a cheap-cheap-lah contract.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Earth
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Training department
Can we please have the run down on the training department and management regarding firing of FO and captain for training issues, bad performance and so forth.
Seems a lot of people are saying pilots both FO and CA are getting sacked for very poor reasons which is ruining lives and careers.
I ask because I have my second interview coming up end of next month to do sim and am currently in a good stable job in the US flying jets here but all my family live in Australia so would like to be close to them.
Is KA very much a totalitarian regime of do as I say or you are immediately sacked? Im looking for some genuine experiences and cases of unfair training sackings or being sacked for not jumping thru hoops.
I have no kids but am very hesitant to drag my wife all the way to HK to find out it is a living hell due to totally uncompromising management and their rules especially as we are both happy in our jobs even if the money in HK is a lot better.
I did the calculations and we would save more money there as she would work also but I really got to know if it is worth it. Im in a US regional, money is not great, not too bad either but we dont get sacked because a manager/trainer is having a bad hair day.
If we screw up we own up, get further training and thats it, no threat of getting fired unless its something like drinking on the job.
Really interested to hear about genuine concerns and cases of unfair dismissal.
Cheers fellow aviators.
Seems a lot of people are saying pilots both FO and CA are getting sacked for very poor reasons which is ruining lives and careers.
I ask because I have my second interview coming up end of next month to do sim and am currently in a good stable job in the US flying jets here but all my family live in Australia so would like to be close to them.
Is KA very much a totalitarian regime of do as I say or you are immediately sacked? Im looking for some genuine experiences and cases of unfair training sackings or being sacked for not jumping thru hoops.
I have no kids but am very hesitant to drag my wife all the way to HK to find out it is a living hell due to totally uncompromising management and their rules especially as we are both happy in our jobs even if the money in HK is a lot better.
I did the calculations and we would save more money there as she would work also but I really got to know if it is worth it. Im in a US regional, money is not great, not too bad either but we dont get sacked because a manager/trainer is having a bad hair day.
If we screw up we own up, get further training and thats it, no threat of getting fired unless its something like drinking on the job.
Really interested to hear about genuine concerns and cases of unfair dismissal.
Cheers fellow aviators.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Earth
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Pilots Quitting
One more thing, how many pilots have had enough at both CX and KA and are on their way to the dessert or Europe?
Have relations reached breaking point between flight crew and management?
Cheers
Have relations reached breaking point between flight crew and management?
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mums Basement
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Luggage,
I would suggest if you have a good job in the states and you are happy there you should definitely stay where you are. I have been here for 7 years and would swap my situation for yours in a heart beat if I could live and work in the states.
As for the being closer to Australia point, that's irrelevant as your roster won't see you getting over to Oz very often anyway. Take the points you read on here seriously, yes a lot of guys are bitter and twisted on here but it doesn't make them wrong.
I would suggest if you have a good job in the states and you are happy there you should definitely stay where you are. I have been here for 7 years and would swap my situation for yours in a heart beat if I could live and work in the states.
As for the being closer to Australia point, that's irrelevant as your roster won't see you getting over to Oz very often anyway. Take the points you read on here seriously, yes a lot of guys are bitter and twisted on here but it doesn't make them wrong.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hong Kong
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As in all things, the picture looks different to all of us. I love Hong Kong, I may be in the majority or the minority and I don't care either way. I enjoy working for Cathay - they are imperfect for sure but then so am I. Please remember that all posting here (me included) have their own agenda. If you want to come then good on you. If you choose not to, then good on you also. The place either Dragon or CX is nowhere as bad as the nay sayers would have you believe.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I'll apply to Dragon, when:
Either pay me as an FO and give me enough accomodation allowance to rent a decent place in Discovery Bay; or, pay me a Captains salary and continue with the paltry excuse for accomodation allowance.
For either of those, I will sit in any seat of the airlines choice.
BTW, I am not HK, Dragon, or Cathay. Nor do I live on, in or anywhere near the region.
Either pay me as an FO and give me enough accomodation allowance to rent a decent place in Discovery Bay; or, pay me a Captains salary and continue with the paltry excuse for accomodation allowance.
For either of those, I will sit in any seat of the airlines choice.
BTW, I am not HK, Dragon, or Cathay. Nor do I live on, in or anywhere near the region.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
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shortly2,
Out of interest are you on local or expat terms?
If local can you approximate your age 20s, 30s etc
Thirdly any family?
Fourth, what was your previous level of accommodation prior to CX (House/flat/garden/pool/etc).
Just to get a fuller picture.
Cheers.
Out of interest are you on local or expat terms?
If local can you approximate your age 20s, 30s etc
Thirdly any family?
Fourth, what was your previous level of accommodation prior to CX (House/flat/garden/pool/etc).
Just to get a fuller picture.
Cheers.
Last edited by Avinthenews; 14th Sep 2016 at 05:41.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Hong Kong
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Hi Av. On local terms, older than those two age brackets, wife and child and I lived in a nice large house before I came to CX. I started in a dog kennel like everyone else here, scrimped and saved and got a horse box, scrimped and saved and got a place you could call a flat. I didn't expect anything to be given to me other than what was fair. Therein lies the rub, what is fair? As men or these days adults you make your own judgement call on that. I have, and still do, enjoy working at CX. I like the people I work with and I love Honkers with all its flaws. Hope that helps identify me.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: HK
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Shortly2,
Firstly, How low is your self esteem, and how little respect do you have for your own profession that you consider living in a dog kennel "fair"?
Secondly; No, not everyone else started living in said dog kennels. Ever heard of expat benefits? Housing allowances existed to avoid the exact conditions you're whingeing about... (To be fair, you mostly talk about how much you love HK and the job, but you obviously have a bit of a chip off your shoulder about your start here to be using terms like dog kennels and horse boxes. And I don't think you have any right to be unhappy about that.)
I started in a dog kennel like everyone else here, scrimped and saved and got a horse box, scrimped and saved and got a place you could call a flat. I didn't expect anything to be given to me other than what was fair. Therein lies the rub, what is fair?
Secondly; No, not everyone else started living in said dog kennels. Ever heard of expat benefits? Housing allowances existed to avoid the exact conditions you're whingeing about... (To be fair, you mostly talk about how much you love HK and the job, but you obviously have a bit of a chip off your shoulder about your start here to be using terms like dog kennels and horse boxes. And I don't think you have any right to be unhappy about that.)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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I joined CX in early 90's, and ONLY did so because of the expat benefits. Sadly it's the new generation that doesn't seem to value their own worth as much as I did. Not being judgemental, only an observation. Sadly, the B scalers and C scalers can only now sit and watch as the D scalers undermine and devalue their own career prospects.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
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Curtain. In effect, the 'line of thinking' is self imposed by the fact that many people will devalue the career and agree to work for far lower conditions. I am happy to keep the TB and CC in effect. I can't do anything about people that feel it is acceptable to do this job for less. I certainly look at them in the cockpit and feel ill. Cheap, nasty and worthless. In their own estimation.
This is drifting toward another CX thread so I'll try and drag it back to being relevant to a KA new-joiner.
The A320 roster looks to be getting more grueling. Demanding red eyes that are incredibly fatiguing and affect your health and then you couple this with China operations. The KA expansion is the most ambitious undertaken yet and commands will be available very early. So on top of the tough scheduling, you will not get out of the books for a few years and you will need to get on top of the aircraft with a dedicated application on the line.
Don't budget on a dog box! You will need a comfortable apartment and you may need to consider an expensive serviced option to ensure noise mitigation. Don't blow your command, marriage or sanity budgeting on a 400 square foot apartment in a typically noise affected area. I'm sorry that the Four Seasons is not an option on the C Scale contract.
The A320 roster looks to be getting more grueling. Demanding red eyes that are incredibly fatiguing and affect your health and then you couple this with China operations. The KA expansion is the most ambitious undertaken yet and commands will be available very early. So on top of the tough scheduling, you will not get out of the books for a few years and you will need to get on top of the aircraft with a dedicated application on the line.
Don't budget on a dog box! You will need a comfortable apartment and you may need to consider an expensive serviced option to ensure noise mitigation. Don't blow your command, marriage or sanity budgeting on a 400 square foot apartment in a typically noise affected area. I'm sorry that the Four Seasons is not an option on the C Scale contract.