The real CX plan B!
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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The real CX plan B!
Received this info on Whatsapp, and thought you might all be interested!
This just in from one of the guys in HKG. Not sure how accurate it all is but maybe useful to you...
Not sure about his point 8 - I've seen management's reactions before
Cathay Boys - VOTE NO
Pass this on:
From a non-pilot CX group manager;
1. This entire TA is about getting rid of the TB/CC forever.
2. The HKPA is a short term bribe to get a yes vote. Management think a yes vote is a slam dunk with this bribe .
3. Once the TA is voted in, over the next 2 years they will get an excess of trainers by 30/40% then go to hourly training pay, they will even take unsuitable trainers just to biuild up the numbers so that the TB can never be used again.
4. It is all about clause 7, everything else is smoke and mirrors.
5. Dragon already have an expansion plan ready to go and recruits selected and this will be announced after the TA yes vote or used as a "we told you" so if an unexpected no vote happens.
6. Dragon and Qantas cannot train us in significant numbers.
7. Cathay had a significant training shortfall before the TB.
8. There is no big stick if this gets voted down.
9. Clause 7 is so vague and one sided that almost anything can be interpreted as industrial action.
10. If anybody thinks that the CMC will be good for pilots then talk to pilots at Emirates. Without any industrial defences we are in for a rude shock.
WE HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED!
This just in from one of the guys in HKG. Not sure how accurate it all is but maybe useful to you...
Not sure about his point 8 - I've seen management's reactions before
Cathay Boys - VOTE NO
Pass this on:
From a non-pilot CX group manager;
1. This entire TA is about getting rid of the TB/CC forever.
2. The HKPA is a short term bribe to get a yes vote. Management think a yes vote is a slam dunk with this bribe .
3. Once the TA is voted in, over the next 2 years they will get an excess of trainers by 30/40% then go to hourly training pay, they will even take unsuitable trainers just to biuild up the numbers so that the TB can never be used again.
4. It is all about clause 7, everything else is smoke and mirrors.
5. Dragon already have an expansion plan ready to go and recruits selected and this will be announced after the TA yes vote or used as a "we told you" so if an unexpected no vote happens.
6. Dragon and Qantas cannot train us in significant numbers.
7. Cathay had a significant training shortfall before the TB.
8. There is no big stick if this gets voted down.
9. Clause 7 is so vague and one sided that almost anything can be interpreted as industrial action.
10. If anybody thinks that the CMC will be good for pilots then talk to pilots at Emirates. Without any industrial defences we are in for a rude shock.
WE HAVE ALL BEEN WARNED!
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I heard from a guy on whatsapp that heard from a guy on the board of directors that if we vote NO they are going to bring A scale back (+100% for inflation), expat housing for all, and offer free unicorn rides in the crew room.
'gobby's' post is spot on.
And that comes from an 'old fart'.
Been there, seen that and as a result, received a right royal shafting for being so naive.
Ignore what should be blindingly obvious as to the company's game plan at your own peril.
And that comes from an 'old fart'.
Been there, seen that and as a result, received a right royal shafting for being so naive.
Ignore what should be blindingly obvious as to the company's game plan at your own peril.
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For those who have never seen our tactics before.
We have just given enough to certain groups to obtain a “YES” vote (55% +/-). Pilots don’t think long term or to better the profession. Our greatest weapon amongst the pilots are their greed and selfishness, that is a given.
We have realized that given a little money in certain areas, the greed and selfishness will take over and the majority of the group will eat the rest. The majority of pilots only look at the money (our “YES” voters) but “The CPG” receives more in productivity where the wording is in our favor i.e. rostering, crew composition, housing. If we are feeling generous we may do it but if law in the jurisdiction the pilot is based does not require us, we will not. This is why we like negotiating with pilots.
We have run the numbers of certain groups and took an educated assumption on the least amount of money to sway that group to a yes vote. We know a vast majority of non-member will vote yes. We take all of this into consideration as to receive a “YES” vote.
The vote will go through. If the “NO” voters win by a small majority, we will go back to the table and offer just a wee bit more to get the vote to sway to our liking.
If the vote comes as a 95% no, we will have to take more drastic measures. Look at our past and see what we have done.
We have a contract in place ready to be mailed out to all involved with a “sign or be fired” caveat. We all know each individual pilot is on an individual contract and we cannot legally change that unless we have “YOUR CONSENT”. We have used “Sign or be fired” before with great success. During that process, we will send out our Pilot Propaganda Machine to spread our news of no upgrades to anyone that votes “NO”. If that scare tactic does not work see below.
We need this Vote moving, as we need a tremendous amount of trainers. We need the “TRAINING BAN” lifted now and never to be repeated. If we have no trainers, we cannot expand and if we cannot expand we will lose market share and if we lose market share we lose money and when we lose money we get a tremendous amount of pressure from the Board and the Board receives a vast amount of pressure from the Shareholder. The Shareholder holds the Board ACCOUNTABLE if “The CPG” does not make money. The Shareholders are watching.
The Board is starting to feel the pressure from the Shareholders so the Board gave approval for money to be spent but as little as possible. If the vote is “NO” then the Shareholders will vastly increase the pressure on the Board to sort this mess out. The Board will give approval to spend a minuscule of more money to sway the vote. The COO has sent his letter of encouragement.
If the vote is still “NO” after the second/third “NO” vote, the shareholder will be furious with the Board and the Shareholders will want “Heads to Roll” at board level.
We at “The CPG” are vey good at keeping our composure and you will never see us blink even when our backs are against the wall. We do everything from a seemingly position of strength to make the other side believe they have no other choice. These tactics work in all our areas of negotiations whether with pilots or any other employee or group.
Over the last 25 years at “The CPG”, we know the pilots do not like to fight for anything and we are counting on this to work this time.
Not one pilot is putting his head above the parapet by not joining our Elite Training Group and the most stressing thing is we cannot single out any pilot individually. Most unnerving. The Training Ban has to go as with Contract Compliance.
Fighting for a decent contract or conditions at “The CPG” is futile. Vote “YES”.
TO OUR BONUSES
The Management
We have just given enough to certain groups to obtain a “YES” vote (55% +/-). Pilots don’t think long term or to better the profession. Our greatest weapon amongst the pilots are their greed and selfishness, that is a given.
We have realized that given a little money in certain areas, the greed and selfishness will take over and the majority of the group will eat the rest. The majority of pilots only look at the money (our “YES” voters) but “The CPG” receives more in productivity where the wording is in our favor i.e. rostering, crew composition, housing. If we are feeling generous we may do it but if law in the jurisdiction the pilot is based does not require us, we will not. This is why we like negotiating with pilots.
We have run the numbers of certain groups and took an educated assumption on the least amount of money to sway that group to a yes vote. We know a vast majority of non-member will vote yes. We take all of this into consideration as to receive a “YES” vote.
The vote will go through. If the “NO” voters win by a small majority, we will go back to the table and offer just a wee bit more to get the vote to sway to our liking.
If the vote comes as a 95% no, we will have to take more drastic measures. Look at our past and see what we have done.
We have a contract in place ready to be mailed out to all involved with a “sign or be fired” caveat. We all know each individual pilot is on an individual contract and we cannot legally change that unless we have “YOUR CONSENT”. We have used “Sign or be fired” before with great success. During that process, we will send out our Pilot Propaganda Machine to spread our news of no upgrades to anyone that votes “NO”. If that scare tactic does not work see below.
We need this Vote moving, as we need a tremendous amount of trainers. We need the “TRAINING BAN” lifted now and never to be repeated. If we have no trainers, we cannot expand and if we cannot expand we will lose market share and if we lose market share we lose money and when we lose money we get a tremendous amount of pressure from the Board and the Board receives a vast amount of pressure from the Shareholder. The Shareholder holds the Board ACCOUNTABLE if “The CPG” does not make money. The Shareholders are watching.
The Board is starting to feel the pressure from the Shareholders so the Board gave approval for money to be spent but as little as possible. If the vote is “NO” then the Shareholders will vastly increase the pressure on the Board to sort this mess out. The Board will give approval to spend a minuscule of more money to sway the vote. The COO has sent his letter of encouragement.
If the vote is still “NO” after the second/third “NO” vote, the shareholder will be furious with the Board and the Shareholders will want “Heads to Roll” at board level.
We at “The CPG” are vey good at keeping our composure and you will never see us blink even when our backs are against the wall. We do everything from a seemingly position of strength to make the other side believe they have no other choice. These tactics work in all our areas of negotiations whether with pilots or any other employee or group.
Over the last 25 years at “The CPG”, we know the pilots do not like to fight for anything and we are counting on this to work this time.
Not one pilot is putting his head above the parapet by not joining our Elite Training Group and the most stressing thing is we cannot single out any pilot individually. Most unnerving. The Training Ban has to go as with Contract Compliance.
Fighting for a decent contract or conditions at “The CPG” is futile. Vote “YES”.
TO OUR BONUSES
The Management
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More hidden agenda...in Clause 33
33 Termination of Agreement
33.1 Either party may give notice to the other to terminate this Agreement after the expiry of the Term by giving six (6) months;’ written notice to the other.
33.2 If notice to terminate is given under clause 33.1 above, the parties agree to commence negotiations for a replacement Rostering Practices Agreement as soon as reasonably practicable. Such negotiations will comprise of a maximum six (6) separate negotiation sessions of three (3) days each and this schedule may be varied by mutual consent between the parties however it must be completed within the notice period.
33.3 In the event that the parties could not reach an agreement with regard to a replacement Rostering Practices Agreement after the negotiations set out in clause 33.2, the parties agree to participate in an alternative dispute resolution process (including but not limited to arbitration and mediation) presided by an agreed independent third party whose decision on the issue(s) in dispute will be final and binding. The parties will endeavour to agree on the mechanism and framework of the alternative dispute resolution process during the Term. Should the parties fail to reach an agreement on the mechanism and framework of the alternative dispute resolution process during the Term, this Agreement may be terminated in accordance with clause 33.1 and rostering practices will be in accordance with the then prevailing AFTLS. The terms of this Agreement will cease to be effective upon termination.
33.1 Either party may give notice to the other to terminate this Agreement after the expiry of the Term by giving six (6) months;’ written notice to the other.
33.2 If notice to terminate is given under clause 33.1 above, the parties agree to commence negotiations for a replacement Rostering Practices Agreement as soon as reasonably practicable. Such negotiations will comprise of a maximum six (6) separate negotiation sessions of three (3) days each and this schedule may be varied by mutual consent between the parties however it must be completed within the notice period.
33.3 In the event that the parties could not reach an agreement with regard to a replacement Rostering Practices Agreement after the negotiations set out in clause 33.2, the parties agree to participate in an alternative dispute resolution process (including but not limited to arbitration and mediation) presided by an agreed independent third party whose decision on the issue(s) in dispute will be final and binding. The parties will endeavour to agree on the mechanism and framework of the alternative dispute resolution process during the Term. Should the parties fail to reach an agreement on the mechanism and framework of the alternative dispute resolution process during the Term, this Agreement may be terminated in accordance with clause 33.1 and rostering practices will be in accordance with the then prevailing AFTLS. The terms of this Agreement will cease to be effective upon termination.
So Clause 33.2 says after 2019, company can cancel all RP agreements, refuse to negotiate and the end result is WE (company and AOA) agree the RP is the default AFTLS?
We will have no grounds for dispute because we agree that RP's are AFTLS!!!!
We won't even be able to take away O days then as we are doing now since we technically have an agreement !!!
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We won't even be able to take away O days then as we are doing now since we technically have an agreement !!!
