Is anybody happy at Cathay?
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Is anybody happy at Cathay?
I can't tell if this forum is just a melting pot for all of the bitter pilots out there who simply can't be pleased or if the majority of folks are generally unhappy working at Cathay. I really want to fly for Cathay Pacific one day when I'm qualified for advanced entry, but I can't exactly ignore what's being said on here.
From what I've gathered, a pay raise was supposed to be given, but wasn't, housing allowance has been reduced, and there's a C scale in place for new hires (DESO pay still seems alright for a single guy like me, but definitely not conducive to raising a family). And because of all of this, pilots are doing contract compliance to pressure management to reverse these things. Am I getting this right and is there anything else I should be aware of?
I really would like to know what I would be getting into if I were to be hired.
Thanks
From what I've gathered, a pay raise was supposed to be given, but wasn't, housing allowance has been reduced, and there's a C scale in place for new hires (DESO pay still seems alright for a single guy like me, but definitely not conducive to raising a family). And because of all of this, pilots are doing contract compliance to pressure management to reverse these things. Am I getting this right and is there anything else I should be aware of?
I really would like to know what I would be getting into if I were to be hired.
Thanks
CX is not the Airline it used to be.
Most of us have not much choice but to put up with the stuff they dish out on a regular basis. You younger types starting out should join with your eyes wide open and expect nothing. Grab the endorsement and hours and as said above have an exit strategy.
One of the best things about CX is the people I fly with, my colleagues are a great bunch of people to work with and they make the job bearable day in day out.
If CX would stop tinkering with our COS continually, leave us alone and actually deliver on their promises this wouldn't be a bad place to work.
They could if they wanted to, seems they still like using a big stick.
Sadly.......
Most of us have not much choice but to put up with the stuff they dish out on a regular basis. You younger types starting out should join with your eyes wide open and expect nothing. Grab the endorsement and hours and as said above have an exit strategy.
One of the best things about CX is the people I fly with, my colleagues are a great bunch of people to work with and they make the job bearable day in day out.
If CX would stop tinkering with our COS continually, leave us alone and actually deliver on their promises this wouldn't be a bad place to work.
They could if they wanted to, seems they still like using a big stick.
Sadly.......
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There are 3000 pilots in Cathay. There are the same few bitter people who come on here to post. The rest of the pilots don't post here. The silent majority are not super happy but most aren't as bitter and twisted as we come across on pprune. In general, people are exhausted, tired of the company attitude towards us and many hope things will get better.
Having said that, apart from a short moan about company things, most flights are generally pleasant with many conversations away from flying and the company. Overall my colleagues are one of the best things about going to work. Sure there are many bad things here at Cathay but is the grass greener elsewhere? Well if it was then people would have gone there but not even 1% do.
Having said that, apart from a short moan about company things, most flights are generally pleasant with many conversations away from flying and the company. Overall my colleagues are one of the best things about going to work. Sure there are many bad things here at Cathay but is the grass greener elsewhere? Well if it was then people would have gone there but not even 1% do.
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I think every single one of us came here feeling optimistic, excited and happy. Overjoyed to be joining one of the world's best airlines. Looking forward to a long and rewarding career flying around the world, creating value for our employer by being the best and brightest in our field, and expecting to be valued and rewarded as such.
Over the period of time that I have been here, I have continually been beaten down by their system, their management style, their degrading my contract, their continual expectation of more and more from me for less and less, and feeling disheartened by their ogre like check and training system where they tend to promote those who like to eat their young - all over and above a nurturing environment where employees thrive and push themselves to be better and brighter, helping the company in a symbiotic relationship where both parties benefit. Where we are experts in our field, and are respected and appreciated for the benefit we bring. It could all be so different.
In all honesty, I am ready to leave, and have been pushed to the point of complete misery over a number of issues. Most recently it has been out of seniority fleet upgrades, where junior officers were granted command slots on the 777 (a long haul lifestyle fleet) well ahead of those (600 to 700+ seniority numbers) very senior captains stuck on 744 and Airbus. And cancellation of RP's protections - as if we are not already past the red line limit of fatigue - they think they can squeeze a little more juice from us?!
The only reason I am still here that the housing allowance has given me an opportunity to create a retirement fund for myself which would have been quite possibly unattainable in my home country. The Hong Kong property market has been kind to me, coupled with the low tax rate here. So yes, I am still here for now.
But I have a couple more years, and my exit strategy is in place. Sadly. Because it could all have been so different. I really want to love my job. I want to keep flying and give back to the junior crew. I would love it if I were able to even reach my contracted retirement age, feeling proud of my achievements and proud that I have been involved in an organisation which has had my admiration and commitment for over 30 years. But no. This now is all about me getting out of here and away from this toxic environment (in so many more ways than one) as soon as possible.
Good Luck to you, and I hope you make the decision that works for you. And if you come, be happy, and take from it what you can.
Over the period of time that I have been here, I have continually been beaten down by their system, their management style, their degrading my contract, their continual expectation of more and more from me for less and less, and feeling disheartened by their ogre like check and training system where they tend to promote those who like to eat their young - all over and above a nurturing environment where employees thrive and push themselves to be better and brighter, helping the company in a symbiotic relationship where both parties benefit. Where we are experts in our field, and are respected and appreciated for the benefit we bring. It could all be so different.
In all honesty, I am ready to leave, and have been pushed to the point of complete misery over a number of issues. Most recently it has been out of seniority fleet upgrades, where junior officers were granted command slots on the 777 (a long haul lifestyle fleet) well ahead of those (600 to 700+ seniority numbers) very senior captains stuck on 744 and Airbus. And cancellation of RP's protections - as if we are not already past the red line limit of fatigue - they think they can squeeze a little more juice from us?!
The only reason I am still here that the housing allowance has given me an opportunity to create a retirement fund for myself which would have been quite possibly unattainable in my home country. The Hong Kong property market has been kind to me, coupled with the low tax rate here. So yes, I am still here for now.
But I have a couple more years, and my exit strategy is in place. Sadly. Because it could all have been so different. I really want to love my job. I want to keep flying and give back to the junior crew. I would love it if I were able to even reach my contracted retirement age, feeling proud of my achievements and proud that I have been involved in an organisation which has had my admiration and commitment for over 30 years. But no. This now is all about me getting out of here and away from this toxic environment (in so many more ways than one) as soon as possible.
Good Luck to you, and I hope you make the decision that works for you. And if you come, be happy, and take from it what you can.
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Ok, sorry I am the exception to the rule. And, I am by no means alone. I really and honestly enjoy living in Hong Kong. My family are also very happy here. There are issues at CX as there are at all airlines. It is a sad fact that the industry is run by small minded accountants only looking in the short term and for their own interests. The HKPA is an issue that neds serious consideration by any potential joiner. That said Sydney is no cheaper for housing or to live - actually more expensive and the big Q pays no allowance and you pay much higher tax. The sand pit is not attractive to me at all and neither is Singapore. At the end of the day do your own number crunching and make a mature decision. Just check the number of guys who repeatedly make negative posts and compare that with the other couple of thousand who don't. Good luck.
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What are G and L days and how come deciding to join management would be screwing over fellow pilots? That's something I would consider one day. Being a director of flight ops seems like it would be neat to do in the latter parts of my career. That or being a sim instructor seems like it could be fun. Is advancing your career frowned upon at Cathay?
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A couple of things.
While there are a few consistent moaners it's a reflection of the larger problem. CX and recently EK seem to be two airlines that now have consistent complaints on PPrune and it not surprising that labour laws benefit the employer and not the employees for both these airlines. ("If you don't like it, leave") While all airlines have problems I don't see the likes of BA/QF etc pilots consistently complaining here.
Exit strategy, much easier if you can sell your property and have a foreign ATPL to move on and absorb the 30-70% paycut to start at the bottom of a new seniority list. Here lies the problem, many new joiners will have no quick way to a foreign ATPL and you can't afford a property to buy let alone sell, so by the time you get yourself into a position to leave you are well and truly trapped by the seniority system.
The system is designed to get you in the door and financially cripple you over time into staying.
While there are a few consistent moaners it's a reflection of the larger problem. CX and recently EK seem to be two airlines that now have consistent complaints on PPrune and it not surprising that labour laws benefit the employer and not the employees for both these airlines. ("If you don't like it, leave") While all airlines have problems I don't see the likes of BA/QF etc pilots consistently complaining here.
Exit strategy, much easier if you can sell your property and have a foreign ATPL to move on and absorb the 30-70% paycut to start at the bottom of a new seniority list. Here lies the problem, many new joiners will have no quick way to a foreign ATPL and you can't afford a property to buy let alone sell, so by the time you get yourself into a position to leave you are well and truly trapped by the seniority system.
The system is designed to get you in the door and financially cripple you over time into staying.
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Avinthenews, every airline his its stages.
Surely you haven't forgotten about when the Qantas CEO grounded the entire airline due to pissed off staff?
They may appear to be happy now, but that wasn't the case in 2011.
Surely you haven't forgotten about when the Qantas CEO grounded the entire airline due to pissed off staff?
They may appear to be happy now, but that wasn't the case in 2011.
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Thanks for all of the helpful and constructive replies. I appreciate it a lot. Helps put some perspective on the job there.
To the others like trafalgar, clear.right, and dan buster, who are going out of their way to demean me for showing a little enthusiasm towards a potential career at Cathay, I'm sorry that you've become so miserable with your life that you need to put others below you down. That must truly suck and I hope you get some help.
Again, thanks to those who gave me some genuine well thought out answers good and bad.
To the others like trafalgar, clear.right, and dan buster, who are going out of their way to demean me for showing a little enthusiasm towards a potential career at Cathay, I'm sorry that you've become so miserable with your life that you need to put others below you down. That must truly suck and I hope you get some help.
Again, thanks to those who gave me some genuine well thought out answers good and bad.
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I guess TonyT summed it up perfectly.
ge065 I am loving HK but I do not enjoy the working environment at all, two different issues.
Last time I had a conversation about soccer, women, cars or motorbikes on a flight deck I was some where else other than CX.
ge065 I am loving HK but I do not enjoy the working environment at all, two different issues.
Last time I had a conversation about soccer, women, cars or motorbikes on a flight deck I was some where else other than CX.
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Bufe01: your profile says you joined in 2005 which makes you a B scaler - there is a massive difference in the quality of life you can expect on the A or B scale and the C scale on offer now.
Please don't underestimate the sacrifices in all aspects of your life you will be making moving to Hong Kong and working for Cathay - emotional, physical and financial. If you have any aspirations of having a family one day and providing them and yourself with anything approaching a decent life, look elsewhere.
I like to think of myself as being above the usual petty PPRuNe pettiness, but to be honest things here have deteriorated to the point where it's not worth joining any more.
Please don't underestimate the sacrifices in all aspects of your life you will be making moving to Hong Kong and working for Cathay - emotional, physical and financial. If you have any aspirations of having a family one day and providing them and yourself with anything approaching a decent life, look elsewhere.
I like to think of myself as being above the usual petty PPRuNe pettiness, but to be honest things here have deteriorated to the point where it's not worth joining any more.
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Updown, I agree airlines go through stages, however CX is consistent, there are currently 14 threads on page one of fragrant harbour complaining about Cathay. While Alan Joyce might get a thread I dont see the widespread company complaints on the forums re QF.
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Yes, some are happy at CX, but over 90% of them are in their first year with the Company. They haven't yet figured out that being a long haul seat warmer, literally, doesn't have anything to do with being a pilot.
Your pilot skills will get worse, not better, until you are a JFO.
Your health will get worse, not better, as you breathe horribly polluted air and have massively disrupted sleep patterns from getting the bad rest periods.
Your bank account will be empty, not full, as you struggle to have any semblance of a decent life style in Hong Kong - one of the world's most expensive cities.
Your hopes and dreams will be shattered, not fulfilled, as you come to realize you can't support a family well in Hong Kong and you will NEVER get a base in your home country.
You will probably never have a car in Hong Kong. You will be relegated to buses and trains for the rest of your CX career.
You will live in a region that is slowly, day by day, becoming more and more like mainland China. Do you want to live and work there? If not, think about it.
The food in Hong Kong is either horrible quality or extremely expensive. Which do you think you will be eating?
Every time you want a drink of water, you will have to purchase a water bottle. No sticking your head under the sink here.
CX has so little pride that its aircraft are maintained at the lowest levels allowed. If everything works, you will at a minimum fly in a very dirty cockpit. Except for the passenger cabin, these aircraft are cleaned very infrequently. Check out the paint next time you see a CX plane. Clean or dirty?
You will work for managers that despise you. Not only do they not like you, they are vitriolic in their disdain for "overpaid and coddled pilots". The irony being that you are massively underpaid given the cost of living in Hong Kong. The only coddling you will get is when you fly to places where they still respect pilots. Hong Kong and CX is most definitely not one of those places.
Truly, I could go on...
Your pilot skills will get worse, not better, until you are a JFO.
Your health will get worse, not better, as you breathe horribly polluted air and have massively disrupted sleep patterns from getting the bad rest periods.
Your bank account will be empty, not full, as you struggle to have any semblance of a decent life style in Hong Kong - one of the world's most expensive cities.
Your hopes and dreams will be shattered, not fulfilled, as you come to realize you can't support a family well in Hong Kong and you will NEVER get a base in your home country.
You will probably never have a car in Hong Kong. You will be relegated to buses and trains for the rest of your CX career.
You will live in a region that is slowly, day by day, becoming more and more like mainland China. Do you want to live and work there? If not, think about it.
The food in Hong Kong is either horrible quality or extremely expensive. Which do you think you will be eating?
Every time you want a drink of water, you will have to purchase a water bottle. No sticking your head under the sink here.
CX has so little pride that its aircraft are maintained at the lowest levels allowed. If everything works, you will at a minimum fly in a very dirty cockpit. Except for the passenger cabin, these aircraft are cleaned very infrequently. Check out the paint next time you see a CX plane. Clean or dirty?
You will work for managers that despise you. Not only do they not like you, they are vitriolic in their disdain for "overpaid and coddled pilots". The irony being that you are massively underpaid given the cost of living in Hong Kong. The only coddling you will get is when you fly to places where they still respect pilots. Hong Kong and CX is most definitely not one of those places.
Truly, I could go on...
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Jeez, I'm glad I turned down the 2nd interview in HK back 10 years ago. I have to say, the 1st interview was not a pleasant experience in NYC.
I had no idea if I got 90 right or 90 wrong on that stupid test. I ended up getting a 93%. The two interviewers looked like they were perpetually pissed off during the whole interview session and acted like they were doing me a huge favor by even talking with me.
I had been offered a G550 job stateside right after the 1st interview, so I didn't partake in the 2nd phase. Maybe a good thing since there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with CX by employees these days.
But there seems to be a great deal of employee dissatisfaction with a great many airlines lately...
I had no idea if I got 90 right or 90 wrong on that stupid test. I ended up getting a 93%. The two interviewers looked like they were perpetually pissed off during the whole interview session and acted like they were doing me a huge favor by even talking with me.
I had been offered a G550 job stateside right after the 1st interview, so I didn't partake in the 2nd phase. Maybe a good thing since there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with CX by employees these days.
But there seems to be a great deal of employee dissatisfaction with a great many airlines lately...
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The one constant with nearly all airlines is that the top jobs are being taken over by clones. Accountants by nature and training, they know nothing but cost discipline and shareholder value maximization.
Value? They know nothing. Safety departments are statistically driven. Hand flying is forbidden and pilots are being de-skilled by hours of automated boredom.
Sad really.
I'm only 46 and can't wait to retire!
Value? They know nothing. Safety departments are statistically driven. Hand flying is forbidden and pilots are being de-skilled by hours of automated boredom.
Sad really.
I'm only 46 and can't wait to retire!
