C & T
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: home
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C & T
If all the Check and Trainers resigned at once, we would consider that industrial action holding "The CPG" hostage. We consider that an unforgivable sin and will have considerable repercussions for those individuals.
We will threaten with "resign and be fired" and that will usually be enough to persuade them not to leave.
We know most C&T's are in it for the wrong reasons and will not want to be banned forever. They like the status.
If most of the Check and Trainers over a period of six months to one year resigned for personal reasons and no new pilots joined the C&T system… that will be harder to track.
In the end, very few will resign their post from our Elite Check and Training System.
The DFO will give some lip service (as in our new rostering system slated for 2030) where need be to make it look like something is being done but nothing will change.
We have connections with the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department and they will grant "Training and Checking" concessions over a period to 12-24 months while "The CPG" forms another list to terminate employment of certain individuals.
Most will fall back into line very quickly.
We will offer very little in the form of rostering, housing, pay, etc., just the very minimum to make it work.
We will offer a one time signing bonus to those who join the C&T staff and put certain individuals on the fast track to become STC's and BTC's for those taking the bonus. If need be, we will increase the training allowance to 23% over a period of one year, reducing to 20% the second year, reducing to 17% the third year and back to the normal allowance the fourth year.
We always have a plan if certain groups start industrial action so your contract compliance is futile.
We always land on our feet.
To My Bonus
The Management.
We will threaten with "resign and be fired" and that will usually be enough to persuade them not to leave.
We know most C&T's are in it for the wrong reasons and will not want to be banned forever. They like the status.
If most of the Check and Trainers over a period of six months to one year resigned for personal reasons and no new pilots joined the C&T system… that will be harder to track.
In the end, very few will resign their post from our Elite Check and Training System.
The DFO will give some lip service (as in our new rostering system slated for 2030) where need be to make it look like something is being done but nothing will change.
We have connections with the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department and they will grant "Training and Checking" concessions over a period to 12-24 months while "The CPG" forms another list to terminate employment of certain individuals.
Most will fall back into line very quickly.
We will offer very little in the form of rostering, housing, pay, etc., just the very minimum to make it work.
We will offer a one time signing bonus to those who join the C&T staff and put certain individuals on the fast track to become STC's and BTC's for those taking the bonus. If need be, we will increase the training allowance to 23% over a period of one year, reducing to 20% the second year, reducing to 17% the third year and back to the normal allowance the fourth year.
We always have a plan if certain groups start industrial action so your contract compliance is futile.
We always land on our feet.
To My Bonus
The Management.
As we all know TM is but a useful spoof. Trouble is, the real lot seem to think this way and may indeed have some 'friends in high places'.
The senior people on the island and especially in London need to get a grip of this whole mess before it gets completely out of hand.
The senior people on the island and especially in London need to get a grip of this whole mess before it gets completely out of hand.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In front of the PC
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
people on the island and especially in London need to get a grip of this whole mess before it gets completely out of hand.
I suspect they are very well aware of whats going on and are either not fussed or actively encouraging the modus operandi.
It's their train set after all.
the reality is, if you no longer enjoy working for the company, then perhaps a move is whats required.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
asianeagle
Not a chance! I won't get anything out of the divorce.
This place is a marriage of convenience and about the good will within it. I still get laid on a daily basis with a few days off per month!
However e-harmony has probably got your compatibility score with stilton at 97%. Grab a room and whisper "sweat obvious" statements in each others ears!
Glad you are happy though! I wish I had your diverse employment history and life experience to compare the present state of affairs.
Not a chance! I won't get anything out of the divorce.
This place is a marriage of convenience and about the good will within it. I still get laid on a daily basis with a few days off per month!
However e-harmony has probably got your compatibility score with stilton at 97%. Grab a room and whisper "sweat obvious" statements in each others ears!
Glad you are happy though! I wish I had your diverse employment history and life experience to compare the present state of affairs.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In front of the PC
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just do it...
I have no idea what your on about... the e-harmony and stilton score are lost on me I'm afraid
I never said I was happy, but what I did say in a round about fashion was that running to big daddy Swire and tittle tailing on the minions here in HK, or expecting them to get a grip, is a complete waste of time.
Pretty much like your summation of my compatibility score
I have no idea what your on about... the e-harmony and stilton score are lost on me I'm afraid
I never said I was happy, but what I did say in a round about fashion was that running to big daddy Swire and tittle tailing on the minions here in HK, or expecting them to get a grip, is a complete waste of time.
Pretty much like your summation of my compatibility score
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the end, very few will resign their post from our Elite Check and Training System.
That means the divorced
The ones with wives they can't stand
The ones with too many kids with wives they can't stand
The ones with no life
The ones that ' want to give back to something that has given them so much '
The ones that failed there upgrades , some multiple times , on every level
The pole climbers
The ones with no kids, and a wife they can't stand
The ones who are on a base
That pretty much completes 90% of the C&T's
So in the end , it's all over.
That means the divorced
The ones with wives they can't stand
The ones with too many kids with wives they can't stand
The ones with no life
The ones that ' want to give back to something that has given them so much '
The ones that failed there upgrades , some multiple times , on every level
The pole climbers
The ones with no kids, and a wife they can't stand
The ones who are on a base
That pretty much completes 90% of the C&T's
So in the end , it's all over.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I reread the above letter from the C&Ters, a recurring thought keeps surfacing in my mind. IT'S OUR FAULT!!! Yes, management has pushed us to the brink, but we allow ourselves to be pushed to the brink. Honestly, show of hands... How many of you book off on preemptive sick calls? By that, I mean unfitness calls where you are not actually sick yet, relationships are not actually failing yet, the bills are not actually overdue yet, etc. So many of us are "suck it up, get it done" types of personality that we are literally selling ourselves (mind, body, and soul) to CX for a degrading pittance of a living. Most of us are far more talented than this job requires. We are whoring ourselves for absolutely no good reason whatsoever. Why???
I believe it is time for a review of sickness management. It would be imprudent to post the Company's SMS programme here, but I will give you some tactics in case you do not know already. The only attendance record you should concern yourself with is the last 12 months. Some call it a rolling twelve months. In the last twelve months, you should strive to keep your sickness calls (Unfit for reason other than fatigue, ASRF) to a number of 3 or 4, preferably 4. The number of days you have booked off in the last twelve months should be in the high teens or low twenties depending on your number of sick calls respectively. This leaves you at all times with at least one more sick call and a long string of days in case you catch a cold or the flu. Think about it, this is an extra three weeks leave every year that you can take whenever you want. Sound good? Might help?
I highly recommend that you get a sickness note for each event, but this is not required, yet. Keep in mind that you do not have to be sick to go to the doctor. Make an appointment, and tell him/her what is going on. You can't sleep for more than a few hours at a time. You are run down and tired. You can't concentrate for very long. You feel like you are always on the verge of getting sick. Your relationships are suffering at home. You think you might be drinking to much. Yada, yada, yada...
If the any of above is a chronic problem, and a couple weeks off don't fix things. It is probably time to go see the flight doc and tell him/her what is up. They will pull your medical but not to worry, you will get it back after an extended period of rest and relaxation. They have to do this. It is their job. Like you, they have an obligation to the traveling public. This works to your benefit, not your detriment. You DO NOT want to be that guy who screwed up and got people injured or killed. All but the newest of our pilots have all been there, flying when we shouldn't be. LEARN from those times.
In closing, stop killing yourselves! Repetitious three man long haul will make this much worse. Two man WOCL is just plain unsafe and stupid. I would not do that, period. Just book off unfit. You are not able to sit in the seat for 9 hours and then do a landing, ever. That hardly makes you a wimp. This Company not only does not care for you, they despise you. They resent everything about you. They dislike that you make "too much". They dislike that you work counter to their bonuses. They dislike that you are not a machine with an on/off switch. They dislike any esteem that you may get from being a "pilot". They resent that they have to pay you housing, or that they had to pay for your flight training. They resent that they have to pay for your kids to go to school. In short, they HATE you. They LOVE when you are tired, worn down, looking like **** (note the uniforms), disorganized with failing relationships, living in a tiny crappy apartment, and selling yourselves on days off to pay your ex. They would just assume you drop dead the day after you taxi under the water cannons so you cannot use retiree staff travel. I am not kidding.
I believe it is time for a review of sickness management. It would be imprudent to post the Company's SMS programme here, but I will give you some tactics in case you do not know already. The only attendance record you should concern yourself with is the last 12 months. Some call it a rolling twelve months. In the last twelve months, you should strive to keep your sickness calls (Unfit for reason other than fatigue, ASRF) to a number of 3 or 4, preferably 4. The number of days you have booked off in the last twelve months should be in the high teens or low twenties depending on your number of sick calls respectively. This leaves you at all times with at least one more sick call and a long string of days in case you catch a cold or the flu. Think about it, this is an extra three weeks leave every year that you can take whenever you want. Sound good? Might help?
I highly recommend that you get a sickness note for each event, but this is not required, yet. Keep in mind that you do not have to be sick to go to the doctor. Make an appointment, and tell him/her what is going on. You can't sleep for more than a few hours at a time. You are run down and tired. You can't concentrate for very long. You feel like you are always on the verge of getting sick. Your relationships are suffering at home. You think you might be drinking to much. Yada, yada, yada...
If the any of above is a chronic problem, and a couple weeks off don't fix things. It is probably time to go see the flight doc and tell him/her what is up. They will pull your medical but not to worry, you will get it back after an extended period of rest and relaxation. They have to do this. It is their job. Like you, they have an obligation to the traveling public. This works to your benefit, not your detriment. You DO NOT want to be that guy who screwed up and got people injured or killed. All but the newest of our pilots have all been there, flying when we shouldn't be. LEARN from those times.
In closing, stop killing yourselves! Repetitious three man long haul will make this much worse. Two man WOCL is just plain unsafe and stupid. I would not do that, period. Just book off unfit. You are not able to sit in the seat for 9 hours and then do a landing, ever. That hardly makes you a wimp. This Company not only does not care for you, they despise you. They resent everything about you. They dislike that you make "too much". They dislike that you work counter to their bonuses. They dislike that you are not a machine with an on/off switch. They dislike any esteem that you may get from being a "pilot". They resent that they have to pay you housing, or that they had to pay for your flight training. They resent that they have to pay for your kids to go to school. In short, they HATE you. They LOVE when you are tired, worn down, looking like **** (note the uniforms), disorganized with failing relationships, living in a tiny crappy apartment, and selling yourselves on days off to pay your ex. They would just assume you drop dead the day after you taxi under the water cannons so you cannot use retiree staff travel. I am not kidding.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I was going to debate you on this...but then I realised, sadly...you are completely correct. Take note everyone of the philosophy being described here, and then implement it as advised.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Anna seems to think that 3 man long haul is no big deal, I propose that we change the office hours for the management and staff.
Monday: 9am - 5pm
Tuesday: 2pm - 10pm
Wednesday: 6pm - 2am into
< split duty>
Thursday: 5am - 1pm
Friday: 1am - 5pm(London UK time). < simulate a long haul
Saturday: computer based study and report writing
Sunday: O day
....additionally, you can't leave your office cubicle for the entire duty period, limited to crap catering, and noise generators installed in each office to simulate aircraft noise for every hour on duty. Enjoy.
Monday: 9am - 5pm
Tuesday: 2pm - 10pm
Wednesday: 6pm - 2am into
< split duty>
Thursday: 5am - 1pm
Friday: 1am - 5pm(London UK time). < simulate a long haul
Saturday: computer based study and report writing
Sunday: O day
....additionally, you can't leave your office cubicle for the entire duty period, limited to crap catering, and noise generators installed in each office to simulate aircraft noise for every hour on duty. Enjoy.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The SCMP will be under huge pressure not to publish such a political hot potato and CX has already seen this coming and doing there utmost to deter it's publication
As for the Apple daily , they wouldn't have clue what the letter meant
As for the Apple daily , they wouldn't have clue what the letter meant
Moderators.
Who took down the letter and why? Are you working for CPG Secret police?? Is somebody scared that The SCMP will get to hear of this disquiet?
Why not remove the whole thread - or do you really believe TM is real and the thread originator is genuine? He's threatening another 49ers for Goodness sake! Is that OK and a warning letter of impending safety issues isn't?
Strange world inhabited here.
Who took down the letter and why? Are you working for CPG Secret police?? Is somebody scared that The SCMP will get to hear of this disquiet?
Why not remove the whole thread - or do you really believe TM is real and the thread originator is genuine? He's threatening another 49ers for Goodness sake! Is that OK and a warning letter of impending safety issues isn't?
Strange world inhabited here.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am in possession of the same letter. Should I post it? I did not before because it is not mine to post. I am not one of the signatories, but perhaps that does not matter. Maybe I should post it here over and over until my account is locked out. Then, I will join under another name and repost it. I could also post it on Airline Pilot Central. It would definitely get attention over there, but only to further ruin CX's already worthless reputation there.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the letter was pulled by the original poster , but like everything in cyberspace , once it's out there you can't delete it
I would hope that the company will sit up and take notice of a very well written letter , because if they don't and God forbid something happens . This will come back to haunt them
I would hope that the company will sit up and take notice of a very well written letter , because if they don't and God forbid something happens . This will come back to haunt them
As one of the signatories on the letter, I find it in very poor form that it's now been hijacked by the mob and thrown around at gutter level. Shame on you all.
One of the chief signatories expressly asked for it to be removed from this forum. It was. Now it's been re posted.
Please take it down again. It's certainly not helping our cause. Quite the opposite....
One of the chief signatories expressly asked for it to be removed from this forum. It was. Now it's been re posted.
Please take it down again. It's certainly not helping our cause. Quite the opposite....