Company Course Online - Legality Question
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 275
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Company Course Online - Legality Question
In this day and age, when many pilots are being forced to work to the absolute maximum of Duty Limitations, the value of DDO's has increased dramatically.
I find I need every precious hour of my DDO's to manage and address the cumulative fatigue I suffer as a result of maxed out rostering.
My employer knows the level of pressure we are under, yet they continue to pile on more by adding 'online' courses. These come with deadlines (often at short notice), and exams with mandatory passmarks.
None of this extra work is rostered. There are no 'project days' for study and completion of these courses and tests. They are meant to be done on your 'own time'. In other words - on your own DDO's.
I've just looked at the CAD definition of 'DDO'.
They define a DDO as - "A period at home base available for leisure and relaxation and FREE OF ALL DUTIES" (my capitals).
Now I'm sure there are wry laughs being heard all across HKG as you read this. And no doubt a few sarky comments will issue at my 'naiivety'. But if I'm flying to the max, feeling generally exhausted, and using my DDO's in compliance with the law (R&R) - can anyone tell me WHEN I'm supposed to do this additional WORK?
If I do it on my DDO's, am I breaking the law?
Is my company breaking the law by expecting this of me?
I'm not taking the piss here - in normal circumstances I'm happy to do some study at home. But these are no longer normal times, and I just don't have the mental or physical capacity to spare any more in my limited time off work.
So, what to do?
I find I need every precious hour of my DDO's to manage and address the cumulative fatigue I suffer as a result of maxed out rostering.
My employer knows the level of pressure we are under, yet they continue to pile on more by adding 'online' courses. These come with deadlines (often at short notice), and exams with mandatory passmarks.
None of this extra work is rostered. There are no 'project days' for study and completion of these courses and tests. They are meant to be done on your 'own time'. In other words - on your own DDO's.
I've just looked at the CAD definition of 'DDO'.
They define a DDO as - "A period at home base available for leisure and relaxation and FREE OF ALL DUTIES" (my capitals).
Now I'm sure there are wry laughs being heard all across HKG as you read this. And no doubt a few sarky comments will issue at my 'naiivety'. But if I'm flying to the max, feeling generally exhausted, and using my DDO's in compliance with the law (R&R) - can anyone tell me WHEN I'm supposed to do this additional WORK?
If I do it on my DDO's, am I breaking the law?
Is my company breaking the law by expecting this of me?
I'm not taking the piss here - in normal circumstances I'm happy to do some study at home. But these are no longer normal times, and I just don't have the mental or physical capacity to spare any more in my limited time off work.
So, what to do?
Last edited by Algol; 3rd July 2015 at 15:20.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,954
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From: England
Our Part A says the same about days off. I never do anything related to work on a day off. I've missed many deadlines for 'stupid online course whatever' or 'how to lift up a box'.
I've received several management calls indicating that I must complete these in my own time however, when I ask for that in writing it goes very quiet at the other end of the line.
Mind you I work in the UK not HK, still...
'em.
I've received several management calls indicating that I must complete these in my own time however, when I ask for that in writing it goes very quiet at the other end of the line.
Mind you I work in the UK not HK, still...
'em.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 241
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From: hong kong
Surely if it is a mandatory requirement, ie you MUST complete it as demanded by CAD or the company as it relates to your job, it has to be rostered and attract appropriate credit?
If not on the roster, all other time is your time and, as Algol says, FREE OF ALL DUTY.
If not on the roster, all other time is your time and, as Algol says, FREE OF ALL DUTY.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: HKG
heard that the junior gals got credits for any mandatory online course while the seniors would have pro-rata in the productivity hours thou not significant
for online courses that dun attract credits, obviously it's not compulsory to do it
for online courses that dun attract credits, obviously it's not compulsory to do it
Joined: Mar 2004
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 347
Likes: 49
From: Hong Kong SAR
7.7 ‘Duty’ & ‘Duty Period’
Any continuous period during which a crew member is required to carry out any task associated with the business of an aircraft operator. It includes any flight duty period, positioning, ground training, ground duties and standby.
Any continuous period during which a crew member is required to carry out any task associated with the business of an aircraft operator. It includes any flight duty period, positioning, ground training, ground duties and standby.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 275
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Interesting.
Does the AOA need individual pilots to make personal complaints to them before defending members communal T&C's, and challenging (what looks like) a clear breach of Hong Kong Aviation Regs?
Maybe they just never thought about it.
Would a letter to the Regulator seeking clarification be too much to ask?
Does the AOA need individual pilots to make personal complaints to them before defending members communal T&C's, and challenging (what looks like) a clear breach of Hong Kong Aviation Regs?
Maybe they just never thought about it.
Would a letter to the Regulator seeking clarification be too much to ask?
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
From: HK- A little bit of industrial China in every breath you take.
Wait until you have a Shanghai, and do it on the 8 hours of flow control you are going to enjoy. That way you are doing it on their time.
So why are we doing courses on bribery and corruption? Is it a prerequisite to getting more China slots?! Wouldn't it be better to put the freight cartel guys on the course, or anyone with their hands on the purse strings?
So why are we doing courses on bribery and corruption? Is it a prerequisite to getting more China slots?! Wouldn't it be better to put the freight cartel guys on the course, or anyone with their hands on the purse strings?
