non-Pilot DFO and non-Pilot GMA
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How did this thread turn into a cadet bashing fest? 
@Chinabeached
Apprenticeship? I personally see the time spent as a Second Officer as some sort of apprenticeship. Like medical and legal professions the amount of responsibility increases with rank.
@Chinabeached
Apprenticeship? I personally see the time spent as a Second Officer as some sort of apprenticeship. Like medical and legal professions the amount of responsibility increases with rank.
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Shuttlebus:
They didn't create the mess they're in, no. But they sure as sh!t lined up and begged for it instead. So shat's worse? The bean-counter telling an adult to jump off a cliff, all the while the exact details of the results as well as those with experience warning them completely against it, but they still jump? You also mentioned bad parenting? Perhaps. Teaching someone that there's no quick 'n easy route to respect and professional success might be a start.
The frustration comes from, and from what a lot of experienced FO's, SFO's and Capts repeat on here and socially all the time, is that all too often it becomes a single pilot operation in sims or other flight events when the SO due lack of genuine experience hasn't a clue. Let's not forget the other frustrations of again what we hear a lot on this forum and other places at home regarding the constant whining about how tough it is to live on the C-Scale salary, blah, blah, blah when it's everything they asked and begged for. Or, "We'll all tell CX to shove and go to EK" (what with all those amazing P2X hours?).
Shoeebox: agreed. Just as an FO is an apprentice to the Capt, a senior VP an apprentice to the company president, and the DFO an apprentice to Gordon Gecko.... We can go on and on. But my point is that in our profession these CX C-Scale SO "apprentices" are entrusted to support and assist the PIC at the time during a 2 crew scenario, and to even act alone when the other needs to take a "physiological break". (Heaven forbid a TCAS RA event occurs??!!!!).
Whilst this has detracted from the main thread regarding the DFO and GMA position's it also highlights that non-pilots in managerial positions as such really have little to zero scope to appreciate the complexities, stressors and / or true realities of there job that they keep screwing down lower, lower and lower. Only someone completely out of touch with piloting a widebody airliner or a piece of dirt like RH would allow this kind of detraction in standards occur.
I'm not quite sure where all the frustration toward the junior crew comes from. They didn't create the world they're [in].
The frustration comes from, and from what a lot of experienced FO's, SFO's and Capts repeat on here and socially all the time, is that all too often it becomes a single pilot operation in sims or other flight events when the SO due lack of genuine experience hasn't a clue. Let's not forget the other frustrations of again what we hear a lot on this forum and other places at home regarding the constant whining about how tough it is to live on the C-Scale salary, blah, blah, blah when it's everything they asked and begged for. Or, "We'll all tell CX to shove and go to EK" (what with all those amazing P2X hours?).
Shoeebox: agreed. Just as an FO is an apprentice to the Capt, a senior VP an apprentice to the company president, and the DFO an apprentice to Gordon Gecko.... We can go on and on. But my point is that in our profession these CX C-Scale SO "apprentices" are entrusted to support and assist the PIC at the time during a 2 crew scenario, and to even act alone when the other needs to take a "physiological break". (Heaven forbid a TCAS RA event occurs??!!!!).
Whilst this has detracted from the main thread regarding the DFO and GMA position's it also highlights that non-pilots in managerial positions as such really have little to zero scope to appreciate the complexities, stressors and / or true realities of there job that they keep screwing down lower, lower and lower. Only someone completely out of touch with piloting a widebody airliner or a piece of dirt like RH would allow this kind of detraction in standards occur.
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Can someone name the last pilot DFO who was there for his troops? If I'm not mistaken it was generations ago. Let the swire managers do it, they can't be worse than recent pilot DFOs can they? Certainly, I think the incumbent is approaching it with a better attitude than we've seen for a while.
DFO Role
Her job is to add strength and depth to the CX senior management team. Ivan says so.
Cathay Pacific Chief Executive Ivan Chu said: “We are pleased to announce Anna Thompson’s appointment in the role of Director Flight Operations, overseeing one of the most important aspects of our airline’s operations. Her extensive experience within the airline will certainly add strength and depth to our senior management team.
“I would like to offer our sincere thanks to Captain Richard Hall for his great contribution to the airline since joining in 1988. We wish him all the best in his retirement.”
“I would like to offer our sincere thanks to Captain Richard Hall for his great contribution to the airline since joining in 1988. We wish him all the best in his retirement.”
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@Chinabeached
Thing is... I don't disagree with anything you've said. I just don't think blaming junior officers for complex structural issues that are 20 years in the making makes much sense.
Thing is... I don't disagree with anything you've said. I just don't think blaming junior officers for complex structural issues that are 20 years in the making makes much sense.
Only someone completely out of touch with piloting a widebody airliner or a piece of dirt like RH would allow this kind of detraction in standards occur.
The Reverend
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With regard to S/O recruitment and dedication to the job; the big mistake CX made, was to make F/Es redundant instead of training them to fly. People with thousands of hours operating on heavy metal with superb knowledge of equipment, loyalty and dedication.
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Airlines and Bankers
I thought this comment posted by a UK Telegraph reader, relating to Lloyds Bank incompetence, could equally apply to an HK airlines' team.
"It is not the staff that cause these problems, but upper management; and it now affects almost all organizations, public and private. The root cause is incompetence, accented by outright stupidity. Upper managements now operate on the theory that financial, technical and service methods and decision-making must be removed from the people who perform these functions. Their reasoning is that it is cheaper to have a system that has as many low wage order-takers as possible, who are easily replaceable, and as few decision-makers as possible who are not so replaceable. This has three spectacular consequences.
1) Separating functional knowledge from decision-making makes actual operation of the business chaotic and immune from improvement.
2) The system gets designed to inherently delay and avoid decision-making because of the small number of decision-makers, who are now overwhelmed with work they are functionally incompetent to perform, and
3) competent employees are forced to follow incompetent instructions knowing full well that they are ineffective and counter-productive, and that they are literally powerless to oppose or overrule."
JW's latest tome also describes the joys of dealing with HSBC :
"It is not the staff that cause these problems, but upper management; and it now affects almost all organizations, public and private. The root cause is incompetence, accented by outright stupidity. Upper managements now operate on the theory that financial, technical and service methods and decision-making must be removed from the people who perform these functions. Their reasoning is that it is cheaper to have a system that has as many low wage order-takers as possible, who are easily replaceable, and as few decision-makers as possible who are not so replaceable. This has three spectacular consequences.
1) Separating functional knowledge from decision-making makes actual operation of the business chaotic and immune from improvement.
2) The system gets designed to inherently delay and avoid decision-making because of the small number of decision-makers, who are now overwhelmed with work they are functionally incompetent to perform, and
3) competent employees are forced to follow incompetent instructions knowing full well that they are ineffective and counter-productive, and that they are literally powerless to oppose or overrule."
JW's latest tome also describes the joys of dealing with HSBC :
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The frustration comes from, and from what a lot of experienced FO's, SFO's and Capts repeat on here and socially all the time, is that all too often it becomes a single pilot operation in sims or other flight events when the SO due lack of genuine experience hasn't a clue
Had to help a guy out the other day with his PM duties, so yes, single pilot ops it is.
The return PF sector was even more exciting!
